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RE: atheism and children
August 8, 2015 at 2:24 am
(August 6, 2015 at 8:06 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 6, 2015 at 7:41 pm)IATIA Wrote: I see CL is back. 
I answered (B). I love the hell out of kids as long as when it time for them to go home, they do not sit down. I do not have or ever intend to have any offspring. I worked in children's hospitals and was very good with the kids. I taught several Doctors how to treat and respect the kids.
Sure thing: http://atheistforums.org/thread-35229.html 
Thanks for the response! Sounds like you've done some good work, sir!
I was the one in the Emergency Room that would take your crying, screaming, sniveling brat from you and bring back a happy smiling child.
The first thing I taught the Doctors is that "shots do hurt", do not lie to the kid. When the kids would ask if it was going to hurt, I would tell them "You betcha" and then go on to explain the importance of the procedure and it did not matter if they understood or not, but while they were listening, the nurse or doctor would give them their 'shot' and in most cases, when my explanation was over, the child would say "OK!" and I would tell them they already got it. The kid is happy, no one had to fight or terrorize the child and Mom gets back a cheerful child.
Also, a teaspoon full of wet sugar is better than thorazine for hiccups. No shots, no drugs, just mmmmmmm good! Doctors were surprised that it worked.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: atheism and children
August 8, 2015 at 2:27 am
I think that may be the biggest difference with our definitions of morality. Yours has a definitive right and wrong answer based soley on what the bible says, while mine strives for the least negative/most positive possible outcome for the most people, based on empathy, theory of mind, and an unspoken societal agreement.
I can't remember where this verse is from, I think it got removed from canon:
"I don't hang around with mostly men because I'm gay. It's because men are better than women. Better trained, better equipped...better. Just better! I'm not gay."
For context, this is the previous verse:
"Hi Jesus" -robvalue
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RE: atheism and children
August 8, 2015 at 2:30 am
(August 8, 2015 at 2:09 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 8, 2015 at 1:58 am)IATIA Wrote: Evil can only exist if god exists. There is no god, therefore there is no evil. There are some really bad people that we refer to as "evil", but in reality, evil is the opposite of omnibenevolence (i guess omnimalevolent?) and as we do not have one, how can we have the other.
Well I know yall don't think evil exists, and that there is no such thing as good vs bad, objectively, which is why the comment was strange to me.
The "god is evil" thing is generally the OT god. My reference to the OT god is "evil tyrannical misanthrope". Even if there were a god, it is not that asshole in the bible. If there were any truth to the bible, it would be the stories of tyrannical overlords presenting themselves as gods and nothing more.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
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RE: atheism and children
August 8, 2015 at 2:31 am
(August 8, 2015 at 2:27 am)Exian Wrote: I think that may be the biggest difference with our definitions of morality. Yours has a definitive right and wrong answer based soley on what the bible says, while mine strives for the least negative/most positive possible outcome for the most people, based on empathy, theory of mind, and an unspoken societal agreement.
Lol, that was a very unbiased way of putting it... 
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: atheism and children
August 8, 2015 at 2:33 am
(August 8, 2015 at 2:30 am)IATIA Wrote: (August 8, 2015 at 2:09 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Well I know yall don't think evil exists, and that there is no such thing as good vs bad, objectively, which is why the comment was strange to me.
The "god is evil" thing is generally the OT god. My reference to the OT god is "evil tyrannical misanthrope". Even if there were a god, it is not that asshole in the bible. If there were any truth to the bible, it would be the stories of tyrannical overlords presenting themselves as gods and nothing more.
But I thought you thought there was no such thing as evil?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: atheism and children
August 8, 2015 at 2:37 am
(August 8, 2015 at 2:31 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 8, 2015 at 2:27 am)Exian Wrote: I think that may be the biggest difference with our definitions of morality. Yours has a definitive right and wrong answer based soley on what the bible says, while mine strives for the least negative/most positive possible outcome for the most people, based on empathy, theory of mind, and an unspoken societal agreement.
Lol, that was a very unbiased way of putting it...
Haha Yeah, I see what your saying. I'll add this, sometimes what your bible deems morally good is best for the most, but that's partly due to dumb luck and because it was written by people with empathy, theory of mind, and who lived in a society. Maybe a better way of putting it would be your morals are written in black and white, while mine have the ability to move into grey areas when it's called for.
I can't remember where this verse is from, I think it got removed from canon:
"I don't hang around with mostly men because I'm gay. It's because men are better than women. Better trained, better equipped...better. Just better! I'm not gay."
For context, this is the previous verse:
"Hi Jesus" -robvalue
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RE: atheism and children
August 8, 2015 at 2:37 am
(This post was last modified: August 8, 2015 at 2:37 am by Catholic_Lady.)
(August 8, 2015 at 2:24 am)Alex K Wrote: The difference between atheists and you is that we can actually acknowledge that nature is an unmitigated disaster, and consequently work on improving the situation, whereas you Christians somehow still have to believe that it's cool the way it is, making excuses for your imagined abusive tyrant who lets his creation suffer. Many atheists feel that nature is cruel and proceed to do something about it. Christians do, too, but they first have to overcome this sick idea that somehow creation deserves it, as evidenced by the stockholmesque excuses you make for the cruelty of your God upthread, and what reads to me almost like a declaration of ethical bankrupcy.
Atheists are better than everyonnnnnnneee (especially Christians), yayyyyyy!!!! 
Lol.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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RE: atheism and children
August 8, 2015 at 2:43 am
(This post was last modified: August 8, 2015 at 2:49 am by Alex K.)
(August 8, 2015 at 2:37 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 8, 2015 at 2:24 am)Alex K Wrote: The difference between atheists and you is that we can actually acknowledge that nature is an unmitigated disaster, and consequently work on improving the situation, whereas you Christians somehow still have to believe that it's cool the way it is, making excuses for your imagined abusive tyrant who lets his creation suffer. Many atheists feel that nature is cruel and proceed to do something about it. Christians do, too, but they first have to overcome this sick idea that somehow creation deserves it, as evidenced by the stockholmesque excuses you make for the cruelty of your God upthread, and what reads to me almost like a declaration of ethical bankrupcy.
Atheists are better than everyonnnnnnneee (especially Christians), yayyyyyy!!!!
Lol.
I wish it were that simple, I wish becoming an atheist would automatically make one a good person. Everyone knows that that is not the case. What are you trying to do with your selective bold quote?
I'm merely highlighting that Christianity can be a serious obstacle for ethical behavior. Way to ignore the substance of what is said to you about your faith, as you always do because you have to. Christians are so used to claiming the moral high ground that they tend to become confused when it is pointed out to them that their religion can be a strong hindrance as well, that they are ethically compromised because of it.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: atheism and children
August 8, 2015 at 2:57 am
(This post was last modified: August 8, 2015 at 3:03 am by Alex K.)
(August 8, 2015 at 2:33 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: (August 8, 2015 at 2:30 am)IATIA Wrote: The "god is evil" thing is generally the OT god. My reference to the OT god is "evil tyrannical misanthrope". Even if there were a god, it is not that asshole in the bible. If there were any truth to the bible, it would be the stories of tyrannical overlords presenting themselves as gods and nothing more.
But I thought you thought there was no such thing as evil?
There is no universal and absolute principle of evil which is independent of human nature. That does not mean that we can't find a working definition for it based on our capability for empathy, desires, feelings and social instincts.
If God wpuld command you to kill everyone, would you say it is moral, and carry it out. If no (and I hope the answer is no) where does the opposition.come from? From the same source an atheist would get it.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: atheism and children
August 8, 2015 at 3:07 am
(August 8, 2015 at 2:43 am)Alex K Wrote: (August 8, 2015 at 2:37 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Atheists are better than everyonnnnnnneee (especially Christians), yayyyyyy!!!!
Lol.
I wish it were that simple, I wish becoming an atheist would automatically make one a good person. Everyone knows that that is not the case. What are you trying to do with your selective bold quote?
I'm merely highlighting that Christianity can be a serious obstacle for ethical behavior. Way to ignore the substance of what is said to you about your faith, as you always do because you have to. Christians are so used to claiming the moral high ground that they tend to become confused when it is pointed out to them that their religion can be a strong hindrance as well, that they are ethically compromised because of it.
I bolded them to show that it's coming across like you're saying Atheists are good and Christians are bad. I know you don't believe this, which is why I brought it to your attention that that's how it came across.
As for the second part, I'm not sure what you want me to say. Someone on the internet whom I have never met is telling me that Christianity is "an obstacle" for being moral. Ok. Obviously I severely disagree, but I don't feel I need to gain the approval for my beliefs from anyone here, so why should I say anything? If you were my brother, for example, I would certainly have plenty to say, as I wouldn't want my brother to think that way about me and the rest of our family. But a stranger online? I don't really mind.
I have noted though, that a comment like that is made (about morality), but then at the same time you don't believe morality is actually a real thing apart from just individual opinion and societal norms. So it's not making any sense. Christianity holds people back from acting morally, but yet morals are completely subjective anyway? Hm. Don't get it. 
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
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