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RE: Am I still an atheist if I believe in a higher being?
August 9, 2015 at 11:26 am
(This post was last modified: August 9, 2015 at 11:29 am by vixene.)
(August 9, 2015 at 10:36 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: (August 9, 2015 at 9:44 am)vixene Wrote: [...]
But online, it seems unless you have an established label to fall back on, you're instantly dismissed or your contribution isn't seen as valid. But meh.
Well, actually - on the internet you get instantly dismissed and validity of your contributions and opinions are undermined, because that's what people (most of them - idiots anyway) do on the internet. ;P
That's if you make their jobs easier by making unsubstantiated claims without backing it up. Which a lot of religious people tend to do. And some lazy atheists. A category which I may fall into.
(August 9, 2015 at 10:37 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: (August 9, 2015 at 9:44 am)vixene Wrote: In the real world, I don't really care for labels because I tend not to get into heated discussions with people regarding religious topics. But online, it seems unless you have an established label to fall back on, you're instantly dismissed or your contribution isn't seen as valid. But meh.
Labels are useful when regarding these religious topics, because it allows the debates to progress much easier. For example, if you described yourself as a Christian and I used Jesus in many references regarding your stance on a topic and then you said "well I really don't believe in Jesus", then we have to start over from square one and spend a good deal of time figuring out what you believe.
But there's a very thin line between a deist and a weak atheist. In fact I'd say they were pretty much the same.
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RE: Am I still an atheist if I believe in a higher being?
August 9, 2015 at 11:31 am
(This post was last modified: August 9, 2015 at 11:32 am by Mr.wizard.)
(August 9, 2015 at 11:26 am)vixene Wrote: (August 9, 2015 at 10:36 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: Well, actually - on the internet you get instantly dismissed and validity of your contributions and opinions are undermined, because that's what people (most of them - idiots anyway) do on the internet. ;P
That's if you make their jobs easier by making unsubstantiated claims without backing it up. Which a lot of religious people tend to do. And some lazy atheists. A category which I may fall into.
(August 9, 2015 at 10:37 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: Labels are useful when regarding these religious topics, because it allows the debates to progress much easier. For example, if you described yourself as a Christian and I used Jesus in many references regarding your stance on a topic and then you said "well I really don't believe in Jesus", then we have to start over from square one and spend a good deal of time figuring out what you believe.
But there's a very thin line between a deist and a weak atheist. In fact I'd say they were pretty much the same.
NO NO NO, Deist belive in a god and Atheists do not, the positions couldn't be more opposite, Deism is a form of Theism.
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RE: Am I still an atheist if I believe in a higher being?
August 9, 2015 at 11:33 am
(August 9, 2015 at 11:31 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: (August 9, 2015 at 11:26 am)vixene Wrote: That's if you make their jobs easier by making unsubstantiated claims without backing it up. Which a lot of religious people tend to do. And some lazy atheists. A category which I may fall into.
But there's a very thin line between a deist and a weak atheist. In fact I'd say they were pretty much the same. NO NO NO, Deist belive in a god and Atheists do not, the positions couldn't be more opposite. But weak atheists may also believe in the possibility of a god although their current stance is that there is no evidence present to suggest that.
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RE: Am I still an atheist if I believe in a higher being?
August 9, 2015 at 11:37 am
(August 7, 2015 at 11:26 pm)vixene Wrote: (August 7, 2015 at 11:21 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: What proof of this 'entity' are you going to provide to us ?? I don't actually have any proof that this exists. However, you don't have any proof it doesn't either.
Why should anyone here be required to disprove your claim. You made the claim, you get the burden of proof.
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RE: Am I still an atheist if I believe in a higher being?
August 9, 2015 at 11:40 am
(August 9, 2015 at 11:33 am)vixene Wrote: (August 9, 2015 at 11:31 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: NO NO NO, Deist belive in a god and Atheists do not, the positions couldn't be more opposite. But weak atheists may also believe in the possibility of a god although their current stance is that there is no evidence present to suggest that.
Yes exactly, weak atheists do not BELIEVE in a god, whereas strong atheists assert that there is no god. Atheists weak or strong do not believe in god, whereas Deism is a belief in a god.
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RE: Am I still an atheist if I believe in a higher being?
August 9, 2015 at 11:48 am
(This post was last modified: August 9, 2015 at 11:49 am by vixene.)
Deism isn't necessarily a belief in a god, what would you suppose is the belief in the possibility of a god but not a direct belief that one exists?
(August 9, 2015 at 11:37 am)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: (August 7, 2015 at 11:26 pm)vixene Wrote: I don't actually have any proof that this exists. However, you don't have any proof it doesn't either.
Why should anyone here be required to disprove your claim. You made the claim, you get the burden of proof.
But I didn't actually make a claim, I just said I believe in the possibility of a god.
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RE: Am I still an atheist if I believe in a higher being?
August 9, 2015 at 11:53 am
(This post was last modified: August 9, 2015 at 11:55 am by Mr.wizard.)
(August 9, 2015 at 11:48 am)vixene Wrote: Deism isn't necessarily a belief in a god, what would you suppose is the belief in the possibility of a god but not a direct belief that one exists?
(August 9, 2015 at 11:37 am)SnakeOilWarrior Wrote: Why should anyone here be required to disprove your claim. You made the claim, you get the burden of proof.
But I didn't actually make a claim, I just said I believe in the possibility of a god.
Wrong, Deism is the belief that God has created the universe but remains apart from it and permits his creation to administer itself through natural laws. Deism thus rejects the supernatural aspects of religion, such as belief in revelation in the Bible, and stresses the importance of ethical conduct.
Atheism does not exclude the possibility of anything, god is possible in the same way fairies, wizards, and unicorns are possible.
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RE: Am I still an atheist if I believe in a higher being?
August 9, 2015 at 12:00 pm
(August 9, 2015 at 11:53 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: (August 9, 2015 at 11:48 am)vixene Wrote: Deism isn't necessarily a belief in a god, what would you suppose is the belief in the possibility of a god but not a direct belief that one exists?
But I didn't actually make a claim, I just said I believe in the possibility of a god.
Wrong, Deism is the belief that God has created the universe but remains apart from it and permits his creation to administer itself through natural laws. Deism thus rejects the supernatural aspects of religion, such as belief in revelation in the Bible, and stresses the importance of ethical conduct.
Atheism does not exclude the possibility of anything, god is possible in the same way fairies, wizards, and unicorns are possible. I would say strong atheists exclude the possibility of a god and strongly believe that it is virtually impossible so your last paragraph does not apply to them.
By your definition, if atheists don't exclude the possibility of anything then I'm also an atheist that does not exclude the possibility of a god.
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RE: Am I still an atheist if I believe in a higher being?
August 9, 2015 at 12:04 pm
(August 9, 2015 at 12:00 pm)vixene Wrote: (August 9, 2015 at 11:53 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: Wrong, Deism is the belief that God has created the universe but remains apart from it and permits his creation to administer itself through natural laws. Deism thus rejects the supernatural aspects of religion, such as belief in revelation in the Bible, and stresses the importance of ethical conduct.
Atheism does not exclude the possibility of anything, god is possible in the same way fairies, wizards, and unicorns are possible. I would say strong atheists exclude the possibility of a god and strongly believe that it is virtually impossible so your last paragraph does not apply to them.
By your definition, if atheists don't exclude the possibility of anything then I'm also an atheist that does not exclude the possibility of a god.
Atheist is not addressing what you think is possible, it is addressing what you BELIEVE. The second sentence applies to atheism, the strong part of strong atheism refers to the claim that god doesn't exist the atheism part refers to the rejection of belief in a god. When it comes to strong and weak atheism the atheism part which addresses belief is exactly the same.
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RE: Am I still an atheist if I believe in a higher being?
August 9, 2015 at 12:08 pm
(August 9, 2015 at 12:04 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: (August 9, 2015 at 12:00 pm)vixene Wrote: I would say strong atheists exclude the possibility of a god and strongly believe that it is virtually impossible so your last paragraph does not apply to them.
By your definition, if atheists don't exclude the possibility of anything then I'm also an atheist that does not exclude the possibility of a god.
Atheist is not addressing what you think is possible, it is addressing what you BELIEVE. The second sentence applies to atheism, the strong part of strong atheism refers to the claim that god doesn't exist the atheism part refers to the rejection of belief in a god. When it comes to strong and weak atheism the atheism part which addresses belief is exactly the same. What you just stated doesn't really make sense. Also this really wasn't the aim of the thread, it's getting derailed.
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