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RE: Energy created nor destroyed.
August 8, 2015 at 4:19 pm
(August 8, 2015 at 3:54 pm)I_am_not_mafia Wrote: (August 8, 2015 at 3:45 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: the stuff that makes up your mind is matter, not energy, and that energy that caused your brain to function will always exist.
No the 'stuff' that makes up your mind (not brain) is a persistent pattern of energy and matter.
I was assuming that Pyrrho was referring to the brain, but no matter, If we are speaking of consciousness then patterns of energy and matter are not the cause of it. In fact there are plenty of cases where people were conscious after being declared clinically dead (brain death being one of the criteria), Commonly shown by being able to describe events that took place in an emergency / operating room during the period in which they were clinically dead.
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98447
Quote:A British scientist studying heart attack patients says he is finding evidence that suggests that consciousness may continue after the brain has stopped functioning and a patient is clinically dead.
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RE: Energy created nor destroyed.
August 8, 2015 at 4:43 pm
Huggy,
No, there are no documented cases of people being conscious while there is no brain activity. All that NDE stuff is lucid dreaming during waking up.
The fool hath said in his heart, There is a God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14, KJV revised edition
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RE: Energy created nor destroyed.
August 8, 2015 at 4:43 pm
(August 8, 2015 at 4:19 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: (August 8, 2015 at 3:54 pm)I_am_not_mafia Wrote: No the 'stuff' that makes up your mind (not brain) is a persistent pattern of energy and matter.
I was assuming that Pyrrho was referring to the brain, but no matter, If we are speaking of consciousness then patterns of energy and matter are not the cause of it. In fact there are plenty of cases where people were conscious after being declared clinically dead (brain death being one of the criteria), Commonly shown by being able to describe events that took place in an emergency / operating room during the period in which they were clinically dead.
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98447
Quote:A British scientist studying heart attack patients says he is finding evidence that suggests that consciousness may continue after the brain has stopped functioning and a patient is clinically dead.
There is a huge difference between a near death experience and just being dead. You might want to look at the Wiki article on that particular quack:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Parnia
And then, of course, you might want to look for more information on near death experiences from reputable sources. Of course, you will likely favor the pseudoscience nonsense sites, since those are the ones that favor your position.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence."
— David Hume, An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding, Section X, Part I.
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RE: Energy created nor destroyed.
August 8, 2015 at 4:56 pm
(This post was last modified: August 8, 2015 at 4:59 pm by I_am_not_mafia.)
(August 8, 2015 at 4:19 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: If we are speaking of consciousness then patterns of energy and matter are not the cause of it.
That's like saying bricks and mortar are not the cause of houses. No. Houses are made from bricks and mortar.
(August 8, 2015 at 4:19 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: In fact there are plenty of cases where people were conscious after being declared clinically dead (brain death being one of the criteria), Commonly shown by being able to describe events that took place in an emergency / operating room during the period in which they were clinically dead.
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98447
Quote:A British scientist studying heart attack patients says he is finding evidence that suggests that consciousness may continue after the brain has stopped functioning and a patient is clinically dead.
There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever of anything existing that is not some combination of energy and matter. You are referring to one scientist who is claiming to have some evidence which has not yet been replicated or confirmed and for which there are many plausible explanations. If it is not falsifiable or reproducible then it is not part of the scientific method. But at the same time you are ignoring the vast body of knowledge created by many hundreds of thousands of scientists that have led to modern day society.
This is called confirmation bias.
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RE: Energy created nor destroyed.
August 8, 2015 at 5:00 pm
(August 8, 2015 at 2:39 am)uniquepegasister Wrote: Hello,
I was debating with a Christian friend of mine resently and she had an interesting thought about how god religion ect. Exist. She states that sense the soul, what makes us who were are, are electrical and chemical instances in our brian, essentially energy, that sense energy can noy be created nor destroyed then thqt proves that when the physical body ceased to exist the 'soul' of a person lives on by energy. In that she stated that that proves religion and afterlife are real. So i ask for any thoughts on the matter as i personally think it's a bit to far fetched.
She needs to learn about entropy. The organizational state of energy and/or matter has everything to do with its properties.
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RE: Energy created nor destroyed.
August 8, 2015 at 5:01 pm
(August 8, 2015 at 4:43 pm)Alex K Wrote: Huggy,
No, there are no documented cases of people being conscious while there is no brain activity. All that NDE stuff is lucid dreaming during waking up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pam_Reynolds_case
Quote:Pam Reynolds Lowery (1956 – May 22, 2010), from Atlanta, Georgia, was an American singer-songwriter.[1] In 1991, at the age of 35, she stated that she had a near-death experience (NDE) during a brain operation performed by Robert F. Spetzler at the Barrow Neurological Institute in Phoenix, Arizona. Her experience is one of the most widely documented in near-death studies because of the circumstances under which it happened. Reynolds was under close medical monitoring during the entire operation. During part of the operation she had no brain-wave activity and no blood flowing in her brain, which rendered her clinically dead. She claimed to have made several observations during the procedure which later medical personnel reported to be accurate.
(August 8, 2015 at 4:43 pm)Pyrrho Wrote: There is a huge difference between a near death experience and just being dead. You might want to look at the Wiki article on that particular quack:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Parnia
And then, of course, you might want to look for more information on near death experiences from reputable sources. Of course, you will likely favor the pseudoscience nonsense sites, since those are the ones that favor your position.
What we're discussing is whether or not consciousness can exist without a functioning brain, which there is plenty of evidence that suggests it can.
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RE: Energy created nor destroyed.
August 8, 2015 at 5:18 pm
"Plenty of evidence"? What I see here is anecdotes at best that have no way of being verified and/or reliably repeated. Those subjects could be lying, for all we know.
"Every luxury has a deep price. Every indulgence, a cosmic cost. Each fiber of pleasure you experience causes equivalent pain somewhere else. This is the first law of emodynamics [sic]. Joy can be neither created nor destroyed. The balance of happiness is constant.
Fact: Every time you eat a bite of cake, someone gets horsewhipped.
Facter: Every time two people kiss, an orphanage collapses.
Factest: Every time a baby is born, an innocent animal is severely mocked for its physical appearance. Don't be a pleasure hog. Your every smile is a dagger. Happiness is murder.
Vote "yes" on Proposition 1321. Think of some kids. Some kids."
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RE: Energy created nor destroyed.
August 8, 2015 at 5:19 pm
Oh no. He caught the Rik virus :c
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RE: Energy created nor destroyed.
August 8, 2015 at 5:21 pm
Hey, at least he's not spouting unintelligible word salads... Yet.
"Every luxury has a deep price. Every indulgence, a cosmic cost. Each fiber of pleasure you experience causes equivalent pain somewhere else. This is the first law of emodynamics [sic]. Joy can be neither created nor destroyed. The balance of happiness is constant.
Fact: Every time you eat a bite of cake, someone gets horsewhipped.
Facter: Every time two people kiss, an orphanage collapses.
Factest: Every time a baby is born, an innocent animal is severely mocked for its physical appearance. Don't be a pleasure hog. Your every smile is a dagger. Happiness is murder.
Vote "yes" on Proposition 1321. Think of some kids. Some kids."
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RE: Energy created nor destroyed.
August 8, 2015 at 5:33 pm
(This post was last modified: August 8, 2015 at 5:34 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(August 8, 2015 at 5:18 pm)Lucanus Wrote: "Plenty of evidence"? What I see here is anecdotes at best that have no way of being verified and/or reliably repeated. Those subjects could be lying, for all we know.
Scientific experimentation requires the subject to be brain dead which obviously cannot be done ethically. Also the example I gave was the "subject" claiming she made observations while being brain dead, her observations were verified by medical personnel as being accurate.
I suppose you can bury your head in the sand and claim that everyone involved is lying, but the truth is not one person can prove that consciousness ceases to exist after death, yet that what you seem believe....
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