Theists and Atheists: the "is there a God Devil's advocate thread

[Darkstar]

The Wheel of Power is impervious to any intellectual assault! Circular reasoning fallacy is a lie perpetuated by the liberal media!

[Cecelia]

Devil's Advocate:

Of course God is real. Just look at a baby's smile, or the sunrise. It also says it in the bible, which I know people have issue with. But really the bible is just a lot of misunderstandings by primitive people.

I'll explain Genesis, and try to answer all the questions Atheists tend to have!

-None of Genesis occurred on Earth. Genesis was on another planet called Eden. Primitives did not understand this.
-The "Snake" that talked to Eve? That was a technological thing that looked like a snake. Primitives didn't understand that either.
-The Fruit? God didn't tell them NOT to eat from it, he told them if they ate from it they would surely die. Adam and Eve were (will be) immortal. Nobody wants to really live forever, so they were given an opt out. They were only kicked out of the Garden because nobody is allowed to die in the garden. It scars the kids.
-Genesis actually occurs in the FUTURE, not the past. Time Travel wasn't easy to explain to primitives.
-The Ark was time lord technology. Bigger on the inside. It looked much like a blue telephone box from England. They actually only had to take animals that Earth didn't have at the time with them. But there was plenty of room, and each room was terraformed for their habitat. The ark erased the rooms after they were used. (Cubits were also a bit smaller back then)
-God wasn't punishing everyone with the flood, he was wiping out civilization because of a deadly disease. They were all going to suffer. Remember, disease and sin were the same thing by primitive accounts. So this totally fits. Noah and his family were sadly the only ones immune to the disease. God send them back in time to try to prevent it all from happening. Of course it wound up in the wrong time (Noah made some mistakes. He's only human). God couldn't have sent him to earth because earth was destroyed. He could have made another one, but it would have taken millions of years (something scientists say!).
-Much of what Noah explained to primitives was misinterpreted, and they started blaming god for everything. But the Ark and everything else was totally true. Ergo the bible is also true. The earth wasn't created in 7 days, the moon isn't a light, etc... all of that was just primitive beliefs added to the stories of Noah obviously.
-...At least everything was made up until Jesus came along. Jesus was God's plan b after Noah. He ended up sacrificing himself to himself so that everyone would be saved. Most interpret this wrong. They think salvation means "eternal damnation" but it really just means being saved from the disease. It makes people immune to it, so on this go around, nobody will get sick so long as they believe.
-There is no hell, except the virus, which is called Hell. The non-believers will get sick because they don't believe (though those who are wicked will get sick anyway) at least when the time comes. Most people won't have to worry about this.
-While god could have used another planet, he didn't because the disease had spread too far. He saw this coming, but couldn't stop it without removing free will from everyone. (people traveled across all worlds, terraforming them, and had the disease you see)
-Only those who believe will be invited to Eden (heaven) when God brings everyone back to life and live forever. Only those who believe will get the invite because others could get sick. God can't make you believe.

So you see, Genesis is accurate. And Genesis says god exists, ergo god exists. If it's right about one thing (and it's right about many!) then it's right about everything else (except where primitives misinterpreted everything, much like you see people doing today.)

[robvalue]

What, you think nothing just came out of nothing in no time without there not being nothing to do the creation of nothing out of nothing? That would never happen.

Therefor, Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[Mystic]

Here are some arguments against God ( I believe they are flawed but never the less make for an interesting discussion):

If God was real it would be graceful of him to let all people know he exist.
Not all people know he exists.
Therefore God is either not real or not graceful.


If we had a choice to eradicate all evil in the world, it would be evil for us not to do so or at least significantly decrease it.
God can eradicate all evil in the world or significantly decrease it.
He doesn't do so.
Therefore God if he exists would be evil.


Earned praise is higher then unearned praise.
God was always what he was and didn't earn what he was
People have to earn their value if praiseworthy.
Therefore people are higher then God
Therefore God is not worthy of worship.

If Theists in general knew God exists, Atheists would know God exists.
Atheists don't know God exists.
Therefore Theists in general don't know God exists.

I will say more later.

[Mystic]

If God revealed a book, he would reveal the same book in many places giving the same message so not leave any confusion and would protect the books so to safeguard the message universally.
He has not done so.
Therefore has not revealed a book.
 
If God exists he would want us to be guide to a guide and his guidance.
If God wanted us to be guided to a guide and his guidance, he would have a guide who performs miracles in all times.
That Guide would be accessible to everyone and not "hidden".
There is no Guide today who is not hidden and performs miracles.
Therefore God doesn't want to be guided to a guide and his guidance.
Therefore God doesn't exist.
 
If God exists, he would want us to follow him.
If God wanted us to submit to him and follow him, he would talk to all of us.
God doesn't talk to all of us.
Therefore doesn't care if we submit to him and follow him.
Therefore God doesn't exist.
 

[Edwardo Piet]

FOOLS.

Christianity is clearly true but first let's start with arguments for why any God at all, a deist argument for dummies.

There must be a God because there must be a beginning and a primer mover..... you have to be really hella smart to be a prime mover, it takes a lot of effort and wit. How the fuck could a bunch of fucking atoms do that shit? It must be a powerful superintelligence lets just call him God cos that's what the book says so... so yeah that's why Christianity.

In the Bible - who would read another holy book? Bible is most popular worldwide, Jesus was a nice guy, he died for you you know? - God created a snake which is a symbol for the devil.... it was Satan in diguise. This is why atheists think animal rights are worth fighting for because they think that we are not superior to them. A lot of stupid sinning atheists love all animals and call themselves 'naturalists' (really they just like getting naked in public) - this includes snakes. They love snakes. They love Satan. He dressed up as snake, not on haloween, in the Bible - no really it is in there go read it, Genesis, it's in there, it happened - so who would reject God and brefriend Satan and serpents? It is clear. God exists and Jesus loves you. Unless you're an atheist snake.

[Mystic]

I want people to come up with their best arguments for God. Go ahead and try. 

I came up with some potent arguments against God and religion. I don't say you have to believe in them. Just come up with the strongest arguments you think you can come up with.

[robvalue]

I haven't got any because it's not well defined.

If we agree god is something that can create realities, then all that would need to happen is something in one of our computer simulations becomes aware. Then the person running the sim would be a god.

They can set whatever rules you think a god needs to be able to set, and have ultimate power over the sim.

[ignoramus]

MK, you mean you want us to be poes and think of reasons "for" God's existence?
1) Because chemicals will never turn into self replicating life on their own! There must be a master architect somewhere! what did I win?

[robvalue]

You're God now. You win the responsibility of everything ever.