Religion as a mental illness

[brewer]

Which is really the same thing.  The only real worthwhile standard is accepting reality as it really is, not as you wish it was.  There either are gods or there are not gods. What society thinks on the matter is entirely irrelevant to what actually is true.  If people are not willing to accept what is true in the real world, or at least what is best supported, then what's the point?  We might as well be believing in magical unicorns and leprechauns.

Then you and I will have different standards on what is considered mental illness and what is acceptable in society. The vast majority of the god delusion people I am not willing to categorize as mentally ill, neither is our society.

[brewer]

My question is, can someone who doesn't have something physically wrong with their brain develop full blown delusions? Or is it just an advanced level of self-delusion for the theists who really think they see/hear things?

Define full blown.

[AFTT47]

Having been brought up in a fundamentalist family myself I would add to the charge of mental illness that religion is also a form of child abuse (but that's for another thread).

Religion is child abuse in my mind but there is no way to categorize it as such in a society with religious freedom.

[robvalue]

My question is, can someone who doesn't have something physically wrong with their brain develop full blown delusions? Or is it just an advanced level of self-delusion for the theists who really think they see/hear things?

Define full blown.

Good point. I don't know how you exactly make the distinction. When you're actually "seeing" things manifest that other people wouldn't see at all, I suppose.

[brewer]

Define full blown.

Good point. I don't know how you exactly make the distinction. When you're actually "seeing" things manifest that other people wouldn't see at all, I suppose.

In my experience a "full blown" delusion is when there is a complete break with realty. Not necessarily with all realty, it can be limited to specific perceptions. The break with realty then significantly impairs the individuals ability to function in their daily lives and within society. That can include visual, auditory, olfactory and tactile hallucinations (the later two rare), paranoid delusions, delusions of grandeur, catatonia, magical/fantasy delusions. There are others. Almost all of these people have a physical neurological defect, be it physical damage/alteration or biochemical.

It's possible that people can have the "full blown" delusion without the neurological defect but it is a rare event and often occurs inside special circumstances. It usually is a behavioral manifestation and not one of altered perception. Once removed from the situation or circumstance the individual typically reverts to a non delusional state.

[Cephus]

Which is really the same thing.  The only real worthwhile standard is accepting reality as it really is, not as you wish it was.  There either are gods or there are not gods. What society thinks on the matter is entirely irrelevant to what actually is true.  If people are not willing to accept what is true in the real world, or at least what is best supported, then what's the point?  We might as well be believing in magical unicorns and leprechauns.

Then you and I will have different standards on what is considered mental illness and what is acceptable in society. The vast majority of the god delusion people I am not willing to categorize as mentally ill, neither is our society.

Clearly we do, but when differences exist, the rational solution is to actually justify your position with more than an opinion.  How can people who believe in things that do not demonstrably exist, who talk to things that aren't actually there, not be mentally ill?

[brewer]

Then you and I will have different standards on what is considered mental illness and what is acceptable in society. The vast majority of the god delusion people I am not willing to categorize as mentally ill, neither is our society.

Clearly we do, but when differences exist, the rational solution is to actually justify your position with more than an opinion.  How can people who believe in things that do not demonstrably exist, who talk to things that aren't actually there, not be mentally ill?

I have justified my position, you choose not to accept it. Discussion over, solution reached.

[Mister Agenda]

Although the comment sections on certain articles occasionally make me consider that religion might actually be a mental illness, I remind myself that commentors are a self-selecting group that often leans toward exeptionall delusional.

My undergraduate degree is in psychology, so I understand how limitied by expertise is on this matter.

It is not a mental illness to believe what you're raised to believe, what almost everyone around you believes, and what most of the people you love believe. It's what evolution has shaped us to do. Even when the belief is incorrect, it is often advantageous to believe what the dominant members of your group believe.

Everyone has beliefs that aren't true, aren't justified, and odd. We often don't bother to reality check them because they don't cause us any trouble. Just being idiosyncratic or eccentric is not a mental illness. You can have a quite bizarre delusion (squirrels are telepathic among each other) and it won't be considered a mental illness if you keep it to yourself. For a delusion to rise to the level of a mental illness, it has to cause you life problems (squirrels are telepathic with each other but I can intercept their messages which involve world domination and in order to thwart them I have to douse everyone I can with mustard immediately).

Religion can reach the level of mental illness in individuals, such as abortion clinic bombers, but we can't define it as mental illness with any credibility.

[Angrboda]

The point is what is the underlying brain function that is giving rise to the behavior.  While there may be societies where adolescents undergo horrific rites of passage, the commonality seems to imply that there is nothing wrong with the brain that is causing the behavior.

There's actually got to be more to it than "do you have a screwed up brain we can medicate".  There are psychological problems that require counseling, not medication.

Treatment doesn't solely mean medication.  Some illnesses cannot be treated with medication and therapy is the best route.

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[robvalue]

Although the comment sections on certain articles occasionally make me consider that religion might actually be a mental illness, I remind myself that commentors are a self-selecting group that often leans toward exeptionall delusional.

My undergraduate degree is in psychology, so I understand how limitied by expertise is on this matter.

It is not a mental illness to believe what you're raised to believe, what almost everyone around you believes, and what most of the people you love believe. It's what evolution has shaped us to do. Even when the belief is incorrect, it is often advantageous to believe what the dominant members of your group believe.

Everyone has beliefs that aren't true, aren't justified, and odd. We often don't bother to reality check them because they don't cause us any trouble. Just being idiosyncratic or eccentric is not a mental illness. You can have a quite bizarre delusion (squirrels are telepathic among each other) and it won't be considered a mental illness if you keep it to yourself. For a delusion to rise to the level of a mental illness, it has to cause you life problems (squirrels are telepathic with each other but I can intercept their messages which involve world domination and in order to thwart them I have to douse everyone I can with mustard immediately).

Religion can reach the level of mental illness in individuals, such as abortion clinic bombers, but we can't define it as mental illness with any credibility.

That's a good point, something I forgot. Religious beliefs don't generally come under scrutiny in every day life because they have no bearing on reality. They're just a bunch of useless extra assumptions, most of the time. It's when someone truly believes something that comes up against reality, such as God will protect them from being hit by cars, that they get tested. And of course, as soon as religion steps outside the realm of unfalsifiability, it fails instantly.

I've heard many people say they literally see supernatural things regularly, such as God, Angels, whatever. How many of these are people with mental illnesses who got drawn to religion? How many are otherwise mentally well people who have convinced themselves they are seeing such things? How do you tell the difference...