Core Message Of Christianity Isn't One Of Love

[Kaninchen]

So you believe evil does not exist?

Or have you not ever given it any thought beyond your cliche'?

Yes, I apologise for not crossing i's and dotting t's.

I was referring to the idea that humanity is somehow 'doomed' to all sorts of post-life awfulness and that individuals can be 'saved' from such awfulness by subscribing to whichever belief set about their 'Saviour' is held by the particular Christian one is talking to at the time.

Genius use of fear.

[Ronkonkoma]

He let himself be pierced by a lance, and from his side flowed blood and water. This way, opening wide the torrent of Mercy, especially for those who did him the greatest harm. The infant king who was persecuted by kings and armies from the day he was born. A limp infant under the stars, who was born in a manger for livestock because there was no room for him at the inn. The Alpha and the Omega, who was and is to come. He was humble. A reed he did not break, and a stone he did not leave overturned. We killed him because we couldn't stand his immense innocence and honesty. He does not condemn unfairly, just as he didn't condemn the woman who was caught in adultery. Rather, he drew a line in the sand so that those who were going to stone her would back off. If we hated him, only then we would condemn ourselves to hell. But knowing him it is hard to hate him, unless we hated ourselves first. Either way, sooner would heaven and earth freeze over than his mercy fail to embrace a trusting soul.

Jesus said that he had been sent to just the lost sheep of the house of Israel.  He told his disciples to avoid Samaritans and Gentiles.  He never preached to the Gentiles.  So unless you are a Jew it seems that you might be betting on the wrong zombie.

You should not interpret our Bible. I don't need your hate. Get rid of it if you want to talk.

[Thumpalumpacus]

He let himself be pierced by a lance, and from his side flowed blood and water. This way, opening wide the torrent of Mercy, especially for those who did him the greatest harm. The infant king who was persecuted by kings and armies from the day he was born. A limp infant under the stars, who was born in a manger for livestock because there was no room for him at the inn. The Alpha and the Omega, who was and is to come. He was humble. A reed he did not break, and a stone he did not leave overturned. We killed him because we couldn't stand his immense innocence and honesty. He does not condemn unfairly, just as he didn't condemn the woman who was caught in adultery. Rather, he drew a line in the sand so that those who were going to stone her would back off. If we hated him, only then we would condemn ourselves to hell. But knowing him it is hard to hate him, unless we hated ourselves first. Either way, sooner would heaven and earth freeze over than his mercy fail to embrace a trusting soul.

... yadda yadda yadda ...

Sorry, but your faith inculcates self-loathing. It is the obverse of a loving relationship.

I love my child. I would never dream of telling him that no matter what he does, it will never be good enough for me, but that because I'm a good father, I will forgive him his incurable imperfections.

That is psychological abuse at its finest, and you are clearly suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, licking the boot that you believes kicks you in the face, embracing every blow as deserved.

If that's what makes you happy, great. Keep it to yourself. No one here wants to read word-salad justifications for clearly immoral actions from the alleged source of morality.

No one.

[Thumpalumpacus]

So it is not ok in your world view to loath the negative aspects of one's self?

Quote with a link where I said that, please; or alternatively, stop putting words in my mouth. I don't loathe my negative side. I take note of it and work on becoming a better person.

Such work doesn't include praying to a fictional sky-critter. It involve me assuming responsibility for my own behavior, instead of loathing myself for a sinful nature that I cannot escape no matter what.

how does someone like you ever become more than what you currently are? How can one like you ever improve upon himself if he is not allowed to identify negative/loathsome aspects with in himself n an effort to grow past them?

It's actually quite easy. Instead of praying to be a better person, and also praying for forgiveness when such an obviously impotent scheme of improvement fails, I take stock of what I do both good and bad, and take personal responsibility to eliminate the bad behavior.

The fact that you don't understand how such a process works only shows the paucity of your insight.

What world view teaches people to embrace their negative qualities and not dare change them?

Christianity, duh. You are told that you are always fallen, you will never meet the desires of you fictional god, and that you need to pray for forgiveness simply for being as he made you.

Pathetic.

[Rhondazvous]

But then Christians use love as a license to treat one another any old kind of way then demand forgiveness. I know some people right here at AF who love me, not because if they don't I'll sic god on them, but because they start with respect and respect turns to love. Love is not something you can command people to do. What could be more phony than, "I can't stand you but god told me I have to love you, so I will because I don't want to spoil my blessings."

...And the "Christians" who do this, are certainly not acting in a loving way and are merely using any excuse they can to be bullies. That is wrong, and that is NOT love. Love does not mean abusing people on purpose only because you feel you can "demand" forgiveness afterwards. Any sane person who tries to do this and calls it love, is being dishonest to themselves.

As for your second point, love doesn't necessarily mean liking someone and having good feelings about them. You are right, that would be phony, because we can't possibly feel that way about everyone. But love, in the sense us Christians (ought) to mean when we say things like "love your enemy", is not a feeling, it's a decision and an action. We love our enemy by acting kind to them, forgiving them even if they are not sorry, not seeking revenge against them, and treating them with respect. Those are all actions, not feelings. 

My favorite thing that Jesus said was this: 

"Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them. If you only love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even tax collectors love those who love them. And if you only do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even tax collectors do the same. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return."

^THIS should be a Christian's understanding of love, straight from the Man Himself, and is also one of the most fundamental and important Christian message. So when a Christian uses "love" to mean anything other than the above, or to act in a way that is not loving, he/she is not acting on the teachings of Christ.

Jesus said when someone strikes on one cheek to turn to him the other cheek also. That’s not the passive walking away that most people take it to mean. He is saying we should actively offer our other cheek for the person to strike.

I see those people down in South Carolina forgiving Dylan Roof for killing their loved ones and I know that is not an example of love that I want to follow. I don’t feel that I have the right to forgive someone for what they did to someone else. There’s a lot in the Christian message that I just don’t accept and the things are do accept are not things that I can’t get from somewhere else. The precepts of Ma’at tell me not to be the cause of the shedding of tears. A friend on the internet advised me not to get into a mud fight with a pig because the pig will like the mud. My own heart is instructed by all the experiences that I’ve inventoried and analyzed. Again there is nothing about the Christian message that is either unique or compelling.

[Thumpalumpacus]

But then Christians use love as a license to treat one another any old kind of way then demand forgiveness. I know some people right here at AF who love me, not because if they don't I'll sic god on them, but because they start with respect and respect turns to love. Love is not something you can command people to do. What could be more phony than, "I can't stand you but god told me I have to love you, so I will because I don't want to spoil my blessings."

...And the "Christians" who do this, are certainly not acting in a loving way and are merely using any excuse they can to be bullies. That is wrong, and that is NOT love. Love does not mean abusing people on purpose only because you feel you can "demand" forgiveness afterwards. Any sane person who tries to do this and calls it love, is being dishonest to themselves.

[...]

^THIS should be a Christian's understanding of love, straight from the Man Himself, and is also one of the most fundamental and important Christian message. So when a Christian uses "love" to mean anything other than the above, or to act in a way that is not loving, he/she is not acting on the teachings of Christ.

What of Paul's teachings about love in 1 Corinthians 13?

[Thumpalumpacus]

You should not interpret our Bible.

Why not? I'm certain he reads just as well, if not better than you.

I don't need your hate. Get rid of it if you want to talk.

The post you quoted was not hateful. If you're that sensitive, the Internet probably isn't for you, kid.

[Catholic_Lady]

...And the "Christians" who do this, are certainly not acting in a loving way and are merely using any excuse they can to be bullies. That is wrong, and that is NOT love. Love does not mean abusing people on purpose only because you feel you can "demand" forgiveness afterwards. Any sane person who tries to do this and calls it love, is being dishonest to themselves.

As for your second point, love doesn't necessarily mean liking someone and having good feelings about them. You are right, that would be phony, because we can't possibly feel that way about everyone. But love, in the sense us Christians (ought) to mean when we say things like "love your enemy", is not a feeling, it's a decision and an action. We love our enemy by acting kind to them, forgiving them even if they are not sorry, not seeking revenge against them, and treating them with respect. Those are all actions, not feelings. 

My favorite thing that Jesus said was this: 

"Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them. If you only love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even tax collectors love those who love them. And if you only do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even tax collectors do the same. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return."

^THIS should be a Christian's understanding of love, straight from the Man Himself, and is also one of the most fundamental and important Christian message. So when a Christian uses "love" to mean anything other than the above, or to act in a way that is not loving, he/she is not acting on the teachings of Christ.

Jesus said when someone strikes on one cheek to turn to him the other cheek also. That’s not the passive walking away that most people take it to mean. He is saying we should actively offer our other cheek for the person to strike.

I see those people down in South Carolina forgiving Dylan Roof for killing their loved ones and I know that is not an example of love that I want to follow. I don’t feel that I have the right to forgive someone for what they did to someone else. There’s a lot in the Christian message that I just don’t accept and the things are do accept are not things that I can’t get from somewhere else. The precepts of Ma’at tell me not to be the cause of the shedding of tears. A friend on the internet advised me not to get into a mud fight with a pig because the pig will like the mud. My own heart is instructed by all the experiences that I’ve inventoried and analyzed.  Again there is nothing about the Christian message that is either unique or compelling.

Well the interpretation of the turn the other cheek stance isn't literally to allow someone to keep hitting you lol. It's more about not returning insult with insult, and instead, to respond to the person with love and humility.   

That's fair enough! You can believe what makes sense to you, of course.

[Catholic_Lady]

...And the "Christians" who do this, are certainly not acting in a loving way and are merely using any excuse they can to be bullies. That is wrong, and that is NOT love. Love does not mean abusing people on purpose only because you feel you can "demand" forgiveness afterwards. Any sane person who tries to do this and calls it love, is being dishonest to themselves.

[...]

^THIS should be a Christian's understanding of love, straight from the Man Himself, and is also one of the most fundamental and important Christian message. So when a Christian uses "love" to mean anything other than the above, or to act in a way that is not loving, he/she is not acting on the teachings of Christ.

What of Paul's teachings about love in 1 Corinthians 13?

Yep! That's a great one too. 

They are not opposite or mutually exclusive, of course. But rather, I think they add to each other.

[Crossless2.0]

Jesus said that he had been sent to just the lost sheep of the house of Israel.  He told his disciples to avoid Samaritans and Gentiles.  He never preached to the Gentiles.  So unless you are a Jew it seems that you might be betting on the wrong zombie.

You should not interpret our Bible. I don't need your hate. Get rid of it if you want to talk.

"Our Bible"?!?  

You mean that book whose whole first part was essentially stolen from the Jews by the ascendant Gentile Christians, re-ordered to better support the Christian story (after being shamelessly scoured for numerous spurious interpretations of Messianic "prophesies" that Jews dispute to this day), and rebranded the "Old Testament" . . . followed by the so-called "New Testament" that was arrived at only after a vote was taken by a group of the winners who emerged from the early church's intra-faith squabble prior to their gleefully suppressing every other Christian group they deemed heretics?

That book?

You're the descendant/beneficiary of one of the most shameful cultural heists and power grabs in history. Who are you to tell anyone that they shouldn't interpret your man-made, bullshit holy book?