Evidence God Exists: Part II

[Ace Otana]

Wait a minute. I respond to a post of yours and you delete it and then repost it after mine? Is that what just happened? What a putz.

You noticed that too?

I really don't get this guy.

[AngelThMan]

Wait a minute. I respond to a post of yours and you delete it and then repost it after mine? Is that what just happened? What a putz.

You noticed that too?

I really don't get this guy.

Had a glitch because I was making two posts at the same time. Deleted both and re-posted one while I worked on the code for the other.

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@ Thor- Could you please define the cceptable parameters for a " a rational point that "points toward the existence of God"."so I could answer your question.

Something stastically significant (I've mentioned this before. Show me where believers -in whatever deity you want to use - have a longer life expectancy, are wealthier, have a lower rate of childhood cancer, have lower rates of blindness, paralysis, birth defects, etc... than non-believers)...

I’m not sure there’s even a study to address such issues. If there is, please point to it. For now, here are some things to consider:

Have you ever noticed that whenever there are big disasters in the world, they are usually happening in regions that either worship different gods from ours, or practice non-Abrahamic religions? Idolatry is one of the most offensive sins to God, if not the most, as evidenced by the constant warnings and admonitions mentioned in the Old Testament. The bible also cautions that entire nations will be punished for this sin.*

Keeping this in mind, here are some recent events:

2004 Tsunami killing 300,000 people, occurring mainly in Buddhist and Hindu regions.

2008 China earthquake: 68,000 dead.

2010 Haiti earthquake: 250,000 dead. This in contrast to the 2010 Chilean earthquake, which killed only 521. While Haitians consider themselves mainly Roman Catholic, the majority of Haitians practice Voodoo as a syncretic religion. http://www.travelinghaiti.com/haitian_voodoo.asp

2005 Hurricane Katrina killed 1,836 people in Louisiana, which has the largest Voodoo following in the United States. The greatest concentration of casualties occurred in New Orleans, which has the greatest concentration of Voodoo followers.

And so on and so forth…

Ever since I can remember, whenever there are huge world disasters, they are usually happening in idolatrous regions or nations. God punishes people and nations for different reasons, and Christians get punished as well. But it appears idolatrous nations get the worst of it.

I could’ve posted this on a separate thread as additional evidence God exists, but here it is anyway.

*I’m citing the bible not to proselytize, but to demonstrate how the scriptures can be corroborated in today’s world.

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All of which explains why the greatest single epidemic in history, the Black Death of 1348-50, mainly affected christian Europe. Betwen 1/4 and 1/3 of the population is reckoned to have died.

It also explains why the Roman Empire was devastated by plague after it converted to christianity.

And what about the Great Lisbon Earthquake of 1755? Or the many earthquakes in Southern Italy and Sicily?

Didn't I say God punishes Christians as well? These happened in different times. Throughout history there has been political and religious unrest within Christianity. If these were in fact God's punishments, only he knows why he did it.

Your examples are without merit because even the bible depicts situations in which God wiped out his own entire population. But for every catastrophic event you can research that happened in Christian lands, I can probably research 20 that happened in idolatrous nations.

I guess that they don't have anything to do with plate tectonics after all. Silly me for thinking that they did!

Silly you indeed. Obviously a Christian is going to make the argument that these are God's tool. So it's silly for you to bring it up.

It must be that god loves and protects christians except for the ones that live in certain regions (the Chileans and Mexicans are obviously in his bad books as well)…

Didn't I point out that Haiti's casualties were far greater than Chile's and others? Did you even read my whole post? Did you understand it?

You know nothing about science, or history…

You don't need a doctorate in history or science to determine whether you're an atheist or a believer. So to constantly make this point is plain dumb. You think you're so smart because you keep making posts with information you gained by googling articles or pressing your wikepedia button. But any 9 year old can do the same (see tavarish). It may fool others here (again see tavarish), but I can see right through you.

I broke my own rule of answering someone who used profanity. That's because I felt I needed to address certain points for the benefit of others. But I'm done with you. You are a jerk and a creep, and you show no intellect by resorting to profanity and insults. This is why I have mostly ignored you in the past. Don't bother in the future because you shall be ignored.

[Paul the Human]

Look, AngelThMan. I do not personally care what you believe concerning the existence of god. Believe what you will. The thing I find frustrating is that you repeatedly present things as 'evidence that god exists' that are simply not evidence of that at all. No matter who tries to explain it to you, no matter how they word it, no matter if they are nice or call you names... no matter what anyone says to you... you absolutely refuse to admit that you are wrong.

Are you wrong about god? I think you are... but that's not the problem. The problem is that you refuse to listen to reason when it comes to the claims you make. It's as if you are simply incapable of rational thought and it's frustrating.

I don't know why I'm bothering.

[Minimalist]

It's as if you are simply incapable of rational thought and it's frustrating.

Ta-Da! You've finally figured him out.


If he were capable of rational thought he would not worship his invisible sly-daddy in the first place.

[tackattack]

because being irrational is of course a prerequisite to belief in said sky-daddy hunh min

[Minimalist]

Yeah, tack. Pretty much.

P.S. you are not exempt if you invent your own as opposed to using one that lots of other people use.

[tackattack]

:ROFLOL:

Then I guess I'm not exempt becuase I use the same one every other Christian uses.

[tavarish]

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I’m not sure there’s even a study to address such issues. If there is, please point to it. For now, here are some things to consider:

Have you ever noticed that whenever there are big disasters in the world, they are usually happening in regions that either worship different gods from ours, or practice non-Abrahamic religions? Idolatry is one of the most offensive sins to God, if not the most, as evidenced by the constant warnings and admonitions mentioned in the Old Testament. The bible also cautions that entire nations will be punished for this sin.*

Keeping this in mind, here are some recent events:

2004 Tsunami killing 300,000 people, occurring mainly in Buddhist and Hindu regions.

2008 China earthquake: 68,000 dead.

2010 Haiti earthquake: 250,000 dead. This in contrast to the 2010 Chilean earthquake, which killed only 521. While Haitians consider themselves mainly Roman Catholic, the majority of Haitians practice Voodoo as a syncretic religion. http://www.travelinghaiti.com/haitian_voodoo.asp

2005 Hurricane Katrina killed 1,836 people in Louisiana, which has the largest Voodoo following in the United States. The greatest concentration of casualties occurred in New Orleans, which has the greatest concentration of Voodoo followers.

And so on and so forth…

Ever since I can remember, whenever there are huge world disasters, they are usually happening in idolatrous regions or nations. God punishes people and nations for different reasons, and Christians get punished as well. But it appears idolatrous nations get the worst of it.

I could’ve posted this on a separate thread as additional evidence God exists, but here it is anyway.

*I’m citing the bible not to proselytize, but to demonstrate how the scriptures can be corroborated in today’s world.

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Thank you, Pat fucking Robertson.

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You think you're so smart because you keep making posts with information you gained by googling articles or pressing your wikepedia button. But any 9 year old can do the same (see tavarish). It may fool others here (again see tavarish), but I can see right through you.

You think you're so smart with your citing relevant articles and definitions? Who do you think you are searching for things on Google, a person that has a thirst for knowledge or something? Who needs that when you can just pull stuff out of your ass, right? Any 9 year old can find concise refutations for long-debunked arguments and present them in an easy to read manner, but it takes a real thinking mind to spout off incredulous nonsense without end. It may fool others, but I can see right trough you.

[Caecilian]

You don't need a doctorate in history or science to determine whether you're an atheist or a believer. So to constantly make this point is plain dumb. You think you're so smart because you keep making posts with information you gained by googling articles or pressing your wikepedia button. But any 9 year old can do the same (see tavarish). It may fool others here (again see tavarish), but I can see right through you.

I broke my own rule of answering someone who used profanity. That's because I felt I needed to address certain points for the benefit of others. But I'm done with you. You are a jerk and a creep, and you show no intellect by resorting to profanity and insults. This is why I have mostly ignored you in the past. Don't bother in the future because you shall be ignored.

If you want to ignore me then fine.

I shall continue to counter your nonsensical 'arguments' with facts. Its important to do this because there are many people who lurk on forums like this, reading what we write and trying to make up their own minds. In this sort of argument, spectators always outnumber participants. People like tav, Paul and Min- they don't need convincing. And I've long given up any hope of getting you to look at the world rationally. Its the spectators who are important here- the ones who could be swayed in either direction.

You haven't answered any of the points that I or others have made.

For example: What exactly is it about Chile (or Peru, or Mexico, or Greece, or Sicily) that leads god to repeatedly devastate them with earthquakes?

For example: Why the Black Death? If you knew anything about history, then you'd know that the major doctrinal splits (Wycliffe, Hus, Luther, Calvin) came after the plague.

And heres another point: Why not the USSR? Why were there no major earthquakes destroying the major cities of the greatest and most ruthless anti-theist nation in history?

As far as googling and using the wiki for information-gathering- yes, of course I do a little of both, although I am fortunate to have a large personal library. You're right that you don't need an academic background to make coherent arguments. It so happens that I do have a solid academic background, and I'm sure this is a big advantage for me. Still- anyone can look at the facts and think for themselves. You choose not to.

[Thor]

Have you ever noticed that whenever there are big disasters in the world, they are usually happening in regions that either worship different gods from ours, or practice non-Abrahamic religions?

False. The vast majority of tornadoes strike the southern and midwestern part of the US. This area is commonly known as "the Bible belt". Seems to me that if this deity actually protected people who believed in him, these tornadoes either wouldn't strike these areas or they would hit "wicked" places such as Las Vegas or Atlantic City. Also, where do most hurricanes strike? The US gulf coast or the eastern seaboard. I don't see any hurricanes devestating Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran or Iraq. And how many places are more seismically active than California? They've had some pretty horrendous earthquakes there. Recall the SF earthquake in '89? How about the one that hit in 1906? Why no earthquakes in Tibet?

Idolatry is one of the most offensive sins to God, if not the most, as evidenced by the constant warnings and admonitions mentioned in the Old Testament.

So, "idolatry" is worse than rape? Child molestation? Mass murder? Torture?

The bible also cautions that entire nations will be punished for this sin.*

And how unjust is this? I could be a devout believer and do everything this deity commands, but if I happen to live in a nation that doesn't follow his edicts, I'm going to be punished just the same? If you have three kids and one misbehaves, do you punish all three?

Keeping this in mind, here are some recent events:

2004 Tsunami killing 300,000 people, occurring mainly in Buddhist and Hindu regions.

2008 China earthquake: 68,000 dead.

2010 Haiti earthquake: 250,000 dead. This in contrast to the 2010 Chilean earthquake, which killed only 521. While Haitians consider themselves mainly Roman Catholic, the majority of Haitians practice Voodoo as a syncretic religion. http://www.travelinghaiti.com/haitian_voodoo.asp

2005 Hurricane Katrina killed 1,836 people in Louisiana, which has the largest Voodoo following in the United States. The greatest concentration of casualties occurred in New Orleans, which has the greatest concentration of Voodoo followers.

And I can cite numerous events where devout believers in your deity were killed. We could start with the Black plague that wiped out nearly half of Europe's population. Then there was the Holocaust when your deity stood by and watched as six million people were herded into gas chambers. There was also the pandemic flu of 1918 which killed over half a million people in the US alone. How about the 9/11 attacks when a handful of Muslims were allowed to kill thousands? It seems to me that you're trying to find a connection that simply isn't there.

Ever since I can remember, whenever there are huge world disasters, they are usually happening in idolatrous regions or nations.

Then explain why tornadoes are almost exclusive to the Bible Belt region of the US....

God punishes people and nations for different reasons, and Christians get punished as well. But it appears idolatrous nations get the worst of it.

I thought your deity was all love and goodness? He sounds more like a homicidal maniac who kills swaths of people for no good reason.

I must point out that you believers are not even consistent. I have had many believers tell me that the US is suffering all sorts of problems (pick out a problem... terrorist attacks, natural disasters, oil spills, AIDS, etc...) because we are "abandoning god". Now you tell me that here in the US we don't have nearly as many natural disasters because we have "God's" protection.

Well, which is it?