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RE: Evidence God Exists: Part II
May 23, 2010 at 11:14 am
(This post was last modified: May 23, 2010 at 11:28 am by AngelThMan.)
Ace Wrote:But, aren't you a little worried that your belief could be disproved by science eventually? Don't want to sound arrogant again, because I'm really not an arrogant person, but no. Not at all. When I first heard of this latest scientific advancement, it never occurred to me for one second that it was a recreation of abiogenesis. DNA and RNA are part of life, but alone are not life itself.
http://www.boingboing.net/2010/05/20/cra...eates.html
I welcome any advantages this new technology may offer, in the same way I've been a supporter of stem cell research. I suppose when the heart transplant was first introduced, and when working artificial organs were developed, certain groups distinguished those advances as bringing us closer to creating artificial life.
I stand by my belief that science can make some remarkable achievements, but it cannot create life completely from scratch.
However, Tiberius has changed my mind about something. That's right, it is possible to influence the 'unbending' AngelThMan with intelligent discourse. My post regarding that is to come shortly...
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RE: Evidence God Exists: Part II
May 23, 2010 at 11:20 am
Quote: However, Tiberius has changed my mind about something. That's right, it is possible to influence the 'unbending' AngelThMan. My post regarding that is to come shortly...
Oooh I can't wait. 
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Evidence God Exists: Part II
May 23, 2010 at 11:36 am
(May 23, 2010 at 11:14 am)AngelThMan Wrote: I stand by my belief that science can make some remarkable achievements, but it cannot create life completely from scratch.
You do not believe that science will ever create life from scratch, because you believe that only god can create life. I get that. Now, just for a moment, imagine that it has happened. Science has created a synthetic life form from scratch. Now what do you believe? Do you still believe in god? Yes, of course you do. Scientists haven't done what only god can do... their life form is synthetic... artificial. It is an abomination in the face of god.
That's how belief works.
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RE: Evidence God Exists: Part II
May 23, 2010 at 11:43 am
(May 23, 2010 at 11:14 am)AngelThMan Wrote: I stand by my belief that science can make some remarkable achievements, but it cannot create life completely from scratch. There you go again. How can you say with such confidence that scientists can't eventually create a synthetic living cell from non-organic material?
At least cover yourself and argue against something like perpetual motion because then you'd have the laws of thermodynamics to back you up. Right now you've only a book made by desert nomads who thought the Sun orbited the Earth.
AngelThMan Wrote:However, Tiberius has changed my mind about something. That's right, it is possible to influence the 'unbending' AngelThMan with intelligent discourse. My post regarding that is to come shortly... Sounds interesting, I look forward to it.
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RE: Evidence God Exists: Part II
May 23, 2010 at 12:27 pm
Paul, I think what AngelThMan is saying is that, science will never, ever create life synthetic or otherwise, completely from scratch. As in, with no tools or equipment of any kind whatsoever. Essentially, it is impossible for a human being to just create life with nothing but his bare hands and his mind.* Doing this might be rather interesting and, if it were done, would still prove nothing about God except that it is in fact possible to create life from scratch in the first place. It lends more to God than against Him.
*We are discounting a certain natural body function here.
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RE: Evidence God Exists: Part II
May 23, 2010 at 12:31 pm
(May 23, 2010 at 12:27 pm)Watson Wrote: Paul, I think what AngelThMan is saying is that, science will never, ever create life synthetic or otherwise, completely from scratch. As in, with no tools or equipment of any kind whatsoever. Essentially, it is impossible for a human being to just create life with nothing but his bare hands and his mind.
Well, that wouldn't be science. That would be magic. "Man will never be able to 'cast a spell' and have life spring into being" is something that is rational to believe. Sure. I'll give you that, Angel. Heheh.
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RE: Evidence God Exists: Part II
May 23, 2010 at 12:38 pm
(This post was last modified: May 23, 2010 at 12:38 pm by Watson.)
But, magic isn't supposed to be real, is it? I think we can both agree that if some sort of 'magic trick' were pulled off and a human being brought life into existance from nothing, there would still be a natural, scientific rationale behind it, would there? And it would definitely still be science if the human itself were aware of that scientific explanation behind his actions, right?
Is it still magic just because thre's a scientific explanation behind it?
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RE: Evidence God Exists: Part II
May 23, 2010 at 12:44 pm
If mankind ever succeeds in creating life from scratch, without starting with living material... it will, indeed, be an act of science. It will require tools and technology when and if it happens. To do it without tools, as you say, with nothing but his hands and mind... would be magic... and magic is not real.
Doing so would not prove that there is no god who did it first and did use magic, but it sure would support the idea that no such being was ever necessary in the first place.
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RE: Evidence God Exists: Part II
May 23, 2010 at 1:05 pm
Who says creating life frmom scratch would require tools and equipment on a human being's part? Why do we require such things to create life from non-living material? If a man created life with simply his hands and mind, would not those things be his 'tools'? Were there a scientific explanation behind his creation of life with nothing but hands and mind, would it still be magic? Is it any less magic because there is an explanation behind it? Not the way I see it. No more than the color blue stops being blue once you explain how it got to be that way.
Still blue, still magic.
And if we couldn't create life from literal scratch, with neither tools nor equipment, how would it go a long way in supporting the idea that God is not necessary in the first place? If anything, I would think it shows the opposite! It shows that without tools or without equipment, life cannot be created by any one or any thing but God.
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RE: Evidence God Exists: Part II
May 23, 2010 at 1:13 pm
*tries to manipulate chemicals and matter at a molecular and genetic level with only his hands and mind*
Can't be done without tools. Other than that, I don't get what you're trying to say.
Watson Wrote:And if we couldn't create life from literal scratch, with neither tools nor equipment, how would it go a long way in supporting the idea that God is not necessary in the first place?
My bad. I can see how it looked like that is what I was saying. What I meant was that if man does successfully create life from non-living material, it will definitely require the use of tools. And that man doing so would support the idea that no god was needed to create life in the first place.
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