Your thoughts on Satanism and the petition for a Satanic statue.

[Angrboda]

Those commandments are being on forced on everyone. It is illegal. People shouldn’t feel as if that’s what they’re supposed to be believing. Biblical nonsense on a court house that’s supposed to serve justice.. seriously? Justice in the bible, that’s a laugh.. People that walk through the door are bothered by it, the people that have to swear on a book of lies, are bothered by it. You have actually said that you don’t believe in a massive part of the bible. Why is it necessary to force people to do that? You know more and more people in this country don’t believe in it? So, what’s the point?

There is no mutual respect amongst religions. The people in this country only want christian iconography on public land. That’s not mutual respect. The moment someone wants to put any atheist  or science plaque up, many christians lose their minds. That’s not mutual respect. Also, again, you say as long as there isn’t unfairness… There is massive unfairness. You are delusional if you cannot see this.

My bold.

Right, so that needs to change. It can either change by allowing all symbols up, or by not allowing any. I don't care which it is. I don't care if it's all or none. I just care that in the end, it's fair to everyone, whatever it takes to get there.  

One problem is that those wanting to put up only Christian monuments have deeper pockets than those resisting the oppression. Dave Silver of AA has suggested that they are simply trying to bankrupt the opposition by putting up illegal Christian monuments that must be opposed in expensive court battles. That's a direct attack upon the minority religions and atheists.

[Salacious B. Crumb]

Ok, I get it now.

All you wanted to do is make a thread, hoping a few atheists would agree with you, then use those atheists which would confirm your beliefs that this was an act out of spite, and ignore everyone else’s points that they have been making. You’re not interested in everyone’s point of view, you want to get a few atheists on your side, and not have a real debate about the real issue. That’s exactly what you have been doing. I feel the satanists did this to stand up against the christians, to say, “If you’re going to put up another statue, we’re going to put one up as well”, with the hopes they would stop doing it, which would lead to more religious freedom, and less religious privilege. I guarantee you if the christians agreed to take their statues down, the satanists would follow suit. You completely missed similar arguments to these, because you’re so mad about a mythical statue being erected near your mythical statue. Grow up. Be an adult, and be honest, and actually want all religious plaques, statues, or whatever off of a public land. You can have all the statues you want on your property and in your church, and you can pray all day, and worship in your house and church all day if you want, no one is stopping you. We don’t want to see any of them

I get that you’re mad, I get that you don’t care as long as everyone’s beliefs are represented (although that’s not happening). And you have said that you’re not mad that the 10 commandments haven’t been taken down.

I don’t understand how you would know whether or not that if someone wanted to put a statue of vishnu right next christ, that it was an act out of spite or not. It very well could have been, and very well may not have been, how would you know? You’re just jumping to conclusions.

If someone building a statue next to yours is meant to be offensive, and that bothers you, then why doesn’t it bother you that we’re here deliberately mocking religion? Why are you here, if people are attacking your faith? If it was actually so offensive, you wouldn’t be here. And, we all know by now, that it’s not for discussion. You want people to agree with you when you make your points, and when they don’t, you completely shut your brain off, and completely block out any rational arguments that are sent your way that contradict your own views.

EDIT: I'm not going through the whole thread, but one of your fallacies, which may be considered an appeal to authority, is on #291. The people you quote aren't an authority on atheism, especially not on an opinion of a statue; you're just picking and choosing what you want to hear.

[Clueless Morgan]

Ok. I'm not entirely convinced that the statue they want to put up isn't meant to symbolize any sort of mockery or opposition to the people of faith, especially since they call themselves "Satanists." Buuuuut you listed some good reasons to think it might not be, and I can see where you're coming from. You raised some very good points. This being the case I think it's only fair to give them the benefit of the doubt and not be bothered if they want to put their symbol next to the commandments. If their symbol truly means something different to them and is not supposed to be a biblical demon of sorts, and if it has nothing to do with mockery or opposition to any group of people, then you're right... there's no reason why it should be handled differently than any other group wanting to put their symbols on display.

It is a major moment for a theist in these forums to concede a point like this so bravo, Cathy.


Now just remove the caveats and stick to the bolded statements above and there's really nothing left to talk about.  

[Salacious B. Crumb]

I agree, congrats on having a slightly more open mind than many others on here, but there's much more work that needs to be done on the mind, when it comes to talking about your religion.

[Catholic_Lady]

Ok. I'm not entirely convinced that the statue they want to put up isn't meant to symbolize any sort of mockery or opposition to the people of faith, especially since they call themselves "Satanists." Buuuuut you listed some good reasons to think it might not be, and I can see where you're coming from. You raised some very good points. This being the case I think it's only fair to give them the benefit of the doubt and not be bothered if they want to put their symbol next to the commandments. If their symbol truly means something different to them and is not supposed to be a biblical demon of sorts, and if it has nothing to do with mockery or opposition to any group of people, then you're right... there's no reason why it should be handled differently than any other group wanting to put their symbols on display.

It is a major moment for a theist in these forums to concede a point like this so bravo, Cathy.


Now just remove the caveats and stick to the bolded statements above and there's really nothing left to talk about.  

Haha, thanks! And I think the caveats are still necessary in case you get people wanting to display the Confederate flag, or swastikas next to the Jewish Star or something.

[Catholic_Lady]

Ok, I get it now.

All you wanted to do is make a thread, hoping a few atheists would agree with you, then use those atheists which would confirm your beliefs that this was an act out of spite, and ignore everyone else’s points that they have been making. You’re not interested in everyone’s point of view, you want to get a few atheists on your side, and not have a real debate about the real issue. That’s exactly what you have been doing. I feel the satanists did this to stand up against the christians, to say, “If you’re going to put up another statue, we’re going to put one up as well”, with the hopes they would stop doing it, which would lead to more religious freedom, and less religious privilege. I guarantee you if the christians agreed to take their statues down, the satanists would follow suit. You completely missed similar arguments to these, because you’re so mad about a mythical statue being erected near your mythical statue. Grow up. Be an adult, and be honest, and actually want all religious plaques, statues, or whatever off of a public land. You can have all the statues you want on your property and in your church, and you can pray all day, and worship in your house and church all day if you want, no one is stopping you. We don’t want to see any of them

I get that you’re mad, I get that you don’t care as long as everyone’s beliefs are represented (although that’s not happening). And you have said that you’re not mad that the 10 commandments haven’t been taken down.

I don’t understand how you would know whether or not that if someone wanted to put a statue of vishnu right next christ, that it was an act out of spite or not. It very well could have been, and very well may not have been, how would you know? You’re just jumping to conclusions.

If someone building a statue next to yours is meant to be offensive, and that bothers you, then why doesn’t it bother you that we’re here deliberately mocking religion? Why are you here, if people are attacking your faith? If it was actually so offensive, you wouldn’t be here. And, we all know by now, that it’s not for discussion. You want people to agree with you when you make your points, and when they don’t, you completely shut your brain off, and completely block out any rational arguments that are sent your way that contradict your own views.

EDIT: I'm not going through the whole thread, but one of your fallacies, which may be considered an appeal to authority, is on #291. The people you quote aren't an authority on atheism, especially not on an opinion of a statue; you're just picking and choosing what you want to hear.

Well I'm glad I have you to tell me what I think, what I wanted, and that I'm mad when I did not realize I was. 

[Javaman]

I came here to post, but ended up only giving kudos. Well, to everyone who pointed out the absurdity of CL's position.

On a side note, I'm proud, as a Vancouverite, that the statues that were erected... no pun intended.

I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit I only have the vaguest recollection of the erections happening.... again, no pun intended.

[Salacious B. Crumb]

Ok, I get it now.

All you wanted to do is make a thread, hoping a few atheists would agree with you, then use those atheists which would confirm your beliefs that this was an act out of spite, and ignore everyone else’s points that they have been making. You’re not interested in everyone’s point of view, you want to get a few atheists on your side, and not have a real debate about the real issue. That’s exactly what you have been doing. I feel the satanists did this to stand up against the christians, to say, “If you’re going to put up another statue, we’re going to put one up as well”, with the hopes they would stop doing it, which would lead to more religious freedom, and less religious privilege. I guarantee you if the christians agreed to take their statues down, the satanists would follow suit. You completely missed similar arguments to these, because you’re so mad about a mythical statue being erected near your mythical statue. Grow up. Be an adult, and be honest, and actually want all religious plaques, statues, or whatever off of a public land. You can have all the statues you want on your property and in your church, and you can pray all day, and worship in your house and church all day if you want, no one is stopping you. We don’t want to see any of them

I get that you’re mad, I get that you don’t care as long as everyone’s beliefs are represented (although that’s not happening). And you have said that you’re not mad that the 10 commandments haven’t been taken down.

I don’t understand how you would know whether or not that if someone wanted to put a statue of vishnu right next christ, that it was an act out of spite or not. It very well could have been, and very well may not have been, how would you know? You’re just jumping to conclusions.

If someone building a statue next to yours is meant to be offensive, and that bothers you, then why doesn’t it bother you that we’re here deliberately mocking religion? Why are you here, if people are attacking your faith? If it was actually so offensive, you wouldn’t be here. And, we all know by now, that it’s not for discussion. You want people to agree with you when you make your points, and when they don’t, you completely shut your brain off, and completely block out any rational arguments that are sent your way that contradict your own views.

EDIT: I'm not going through the whole thread, but one of your fallacies, which may be considered an appeal to authority, is on #291. The people you quote aren't an authority on atheism, especially not on an opinion of a statue; you're just picking and choosing what you want to hear.

Well I'm glad I have you to tell me what I think, what I wanted, and that I'm mad when I did not realize I was. 

I was going by what you were saying, what you said that you wanted, and by your anger (offense taken) over this statue. All of those things are in this thread, you can choose to ignore those if you want to do that as well.

Learn to read

[rado84]

Uhm... Can you provide a single example of such a "devil worshiping satanist" congregation? Or any other references? Because I think that's all b*llocks - these people don't exist... Unless you count teenagers listening to death-metal and trying to upset their parents. Or the odd mentally ill person.

They usually don't advertise themselves and prefer to remain hidden. Maybe there are websites for them but as far as I know you can access them only after personal invitation from the administrators. There was once a Bulgarian website for such people but it doesn't exist anymore. I knew a few of these people and if you think god worshippers are mentally ill, you haven't met those guys. Churches accuse us, Atheists, of being baby eaters but in fact those devil worshippers are people of whom I think they're capable of such a thing.They told me they have killed animals to perform their satanic rituals for summoning the devil. And every time I asked them "did he appear" they said "no" and I laughed.

I just found a few websites which could be what you asked for:
http://www.churchofsatan.com/
http://www.joyofsatan.org/
http://thesatanictemple.com/about-us

[Catholic_Lady]

Well I'm glad I have you to tell me what I think, what I wanted, and that I'm mad when I did not realize I was. 

I was going by what you were saying, what you said that you wanted, and by your anger (offense taken) over this statue. All of those things are in this thread, you can choose to ignore those if you want to do that as well.

Learn to read  

Sal, pretty much everything you said was not true about me at all. But then again, you admitted that you didn't read a lot of my posts on here, so no surprise there.