Your thoughts on Satanism and the petition for a Satanic statue.

[Longhorn]

Uh yeah. Weren't we talking about xtian privilege though?

[TheRocketSurgeon]

You guys just don't get it, do you?

It's ok when xtians do it, because they're obviously right. All the other religions are just yknow, fucking around.


I'm deeply offended by religious statues of any kind, but I guess I'd have to be xtian for that to count.

Vic, neither me nor Chad is saying we're offended by statues of other religions. It's not like I get offended when I see something Jewish or Hindu or whatever. I honestly don't really care. This is a clear strawman.

Cath, he's being sarcastic. We understand that you're only offended by the (very narrow view, I think) that one statue's symbology is offensive because it "shows aggression toward" the other statue, somehow, or the adherents who placed it there... which is, of course, the whole reason it was placed there by the Satanists, in order to trigger a defensive reaction from the majority-group that normally feels so arrogant in its domination of this culture that few other methods would reach them.

What we're trying to get you to understand is the concept of Privilege. You have the luxury of choosing whether or not to be offended by other religious displays because yours is still the dominant element of the culture, and so other religious minorities may be effectively ignored.

When we try to explain it to you, you just shrug and say "well it doesn't bother me", thus missing our point completely, and marginalizing the perspective of the minority groups, including us. So listen well: it's not about whether it's equally okay for Hindus to get together and put up a statue.

Placing an icon of the dominant faith on a courthouse or other public property/building that all the people who live in this multi-faith (pluralistic), secular society must share, tells everyone not of that dominant faith that they are second-class citizens, that their oaths and testimonies in the courtroom mean just a little bit less, that they are under the overarching thumb of the dominant class. This is made even worse by the Christian history of doing just that in western culture, to the point that we refer to the breaking of that total dominance as "The Rebirth" (re-naissance) and "The Enlightenment".

Those monuments to the Ten Commandments, as I have shown with words in a previous post, show a defiance of the Bill of Rights and the entire Age of Reason that terrifies us, we who know history and have suffered the social barbs of rejecting the dominant faith of this nation. If you really thought it through, it would scare you, too, if you are a person of good conscience who truly cares about your fellow Americans, your fellow human beings.

[Catholic_Lady]

Vic, neither me nor Chad is saying we're offended by statues of other religions. It's not like I get offended when I see something Jewish or Hindu or whatever. I honestly don't really care. This is a clear strawman.

Cath, he's being sarcastic. We understand that you're only offended by the (very narrow view, I think) that one statue's symbology is offensive because it "shows aggression toward" the other statue, somehow, or the adherents who placed it there... which is, of course, the whole reason it was placed there by the Satanists, in order to trigger a defensive reaction from the majority-group that normally feels so arrogant in its domination of this culture that few other methods would reach them.

What we're trying to get you to understand is the concept of Privilege. You have the luxury of choosing whether or not to be offended by other religious displays because yours is still the dominant element of the culture, and so other religious minorities may be effectively ignored.

When we try to explain it to you, you just shrug and say "well it doesn't bother me", thus missing our point completely, and marginalizing the perspective of the minority groups, including us. So listen well: it's not about whether it's equally okay for Hindus to get together and put up a statue.

Placing an icon of the dominant faith on a courthouse or other public property/building that all the people who live in this multi-faith (pluralistic), secular society must share, tells everyone not of that dominant faith that they are second-class citizens, that their oaths and testimonies in the courtroom mean just a little bit less, that they are under the overarching thumb of the dominant class. This is made even worse by the Christian history of doing just that in western culture, to the point that we refer to the breaking of that total dominance as "The Rebirth" (re-naissance) and "The Enlightenment".

Those monuments to the Ten Commandments, as I have shown with words in a previous post, show a defiance of the Bill of Rights and the entire Age of Reason that terrifies us, we who know history and have suffered the social barbs of rejecting the dominant faith of this nation. If you really thought it through, it would scare you, too, if you are a person of good conscience who truly cares about your fellow Americans, your fellow human beings.

Ok. I agree that no particular group of people should get any privilege over another. It should be either any religious symbol allowed, or none. I guess I just can't relate to such a thing making me feel like a second class citizen, because as long as the laws were not affected, I personally wouldn't feel that way if there was another religious sign instead of the 10 commandments. I keep stressing about "as long as this doesn't affect the laws".... which would include regarding anyone else like second class citizen. If that happened, I would care. Otherwise, I don't really care what statue is on what building. If I moved to a different country where the vast majority of the population was Buddhist, for example, and they had a Buddha by the front door of a court house, I really just don't see myself caring so long as I am treated like everyone else and so long as the laws are fair and objective for everyone. So I'm sorry, but I just can't relate to the outrage about this because I don't see myself feeling the same way at all. I don't know what else to tell you.

[Alex K]

@CL,

The first time I took the bus from Brooklyn to Manhattan, I ended up being the only white person in the vehicle, and it suddenly dawned on me that until that day I had no idea how strange that feels.

But I digress.

[Catholic_Lady]

@CL,

The first time I took the bus from Brooklyn to Manhattan, I ended up being the only white person in the vehicle, and it suddenly dawned on me that until that day I had no idea how strange that feels.

But I digress.

Fair enough, and I see your point. You're right, I guess technically it's impossible for me to say for sure whether or not I would care if I was put in a situation I had never experienced before. I can only say I don't see myself caring, but if I'm being 100% precise, I should say it's impossible to know for sure. I went to a public high school in a liberal city, where I was the only conservative minded/practicing Christian in my group of friends, and I learned to deal with that. But I know this is a much much smaller scale, so perhaps you're right... perhaps I would care.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

[Clueless Morgan]

[Neo-Scholastic]

When I see picture of Ganesh a shrine to the Buddha, I could care less about their false pagan gods but I still understand that they may feel very deeply about their beliefs and I can respect their piety. If a local government wishes to honor the contributions of various religious traditions to our civil society then I’m fine with that too. I’m not even offended by other believers considering my religion heretical if the goal of their faith is knowledge of a loving God and seek good.

The whole point of a Satanic monument is to offend. The mock believers only want to instigate controversy and express their contempt for what sincere believers consider sacred. It’s a thinly disguised attempt to deface public space with an intentionally insulting message. They what to have a laugh but really they are just being cunts. And I have no respect for their apologists because they relish the idea of bigotry against people of faith.

[Catholic_Lady]

When I see picture of Ganesh a shrine to the Buddha, I could care less about their false pagan gods but I still understand that they may feel very deeply about their beliefs and I can respect their piety. If a local government wishes to honor the contributions of various religious traditions to our civil society then I’m fine with that too. I’m not even offended by other believers considering my religion heretical if the goal of their faith is knowledge of a loving God and seek good.

The whole point of a Satanic monument is to offend. The mock believers only want to instigate controversy and express their contempt for what sincere believers consider sacred. It’s a thinly disguised attempt to deface public space with an intentionally insulting message. They what to have a laugh but really they are just being cunts. And I have no respect for their apologists because they relish the idea of bigotry against people of faith.

Yes, this. Exactly this. I don't care about other people's religious symbols and statues. I do care about deliberate hateful/bigoted behavior towards any particular group of people.

[downbeatplumb]

When I see picture of Ganesh a shrine to the Buddha, I could care less about their false pagan gods but I still understand that they may feel very deeply about their beliefs and I can respect their piety. If a local government wishes to honor the contributions of various religious traditions to our civil society then I’m fine with that too. I’m not even offended by other believers considering my religion heretical if the goal of their faith is knowledge of a loving God and seek good.

The whole point of a Satanic monument is to offend. The mock believers only want to instigate controversy and express their contempt for what sincere believers consider sacred. It’s a thinly disguised attempt to deface public space with an intentionally insulting message. They what to have a laugh but really they are just being cunts. And I have no respect for their apologists because they relish the idea of bigotry against people of faith.

Yes, this. Exactly this. I don't care about other people's religious symbols and statues. I do care about deliberate hateful/bigoted behavior towards any particular group of people.

Its there to make a point and part of that point is that you find it offensive. But I risk repeating what has been said before.