Converting Atheists with Guilt

[Anomalocaris]

I disagree that no one has ever been guilt tripped into a real, or as real as to make no difference, conversion.

We tend to suppose people have clear internal definitions of what fact or truth is, and would evaluate how closely a proposition meet the definition of fact or truth by assessing objective, external, evidence for or against it. So we suppose if religion didn't match a person's internal definition for factual, than that person could not be guilt tripped into any conversion that would result the religion being assessed as factual anyway.

I think that supposition is not really true with many people. Many people have no clear internal definition of what is true and what is factual. Therefore they do not have any repeatable or consistent way to measure what is true and what is factual. Instead they let a complex smog of feelings and emotions dictate to them what they would accept as being true and factual. Such people certainly can be guilt tripped into a real conversion.

[robvalue]

You must be right, or there wouldn't be any religion in the first place.

[Whateverist]

I prefer my conversion neat, shaken not stirred.

[Little lunch]

Conversion to secret agent....cool.

[Longhorn]

Guilt tripped into relapse. That would be me.

[LastPoet]

I am guilty of the things you say about me and all others no one knows that I won't repent. I am free, I harmed no one. (LP.corp.org will not be responsible for feelings, as feelings are not covered by our policy).

[Knight000]

It's more that some people get guilt tripped into continuing to go through the motions of religion.  I don't think you can convert anyone by guilt, or make them believe by guilt either.

I disagree, I think a lot of 'born again' christians are a fine example of guilt tripped people, who suddenly feel like they have a lease to start over.

I view those people as "abuse victims" if they were abused as a child/used, so unless someone in jail didn't have one of those things happen to him, I can agree with this.

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I disagree that no one has ever been guilt tripped into a real, or as real as to make no difference, conversion.

We tend to suppose people have clear internal definitions of what fact or truth is, and would evaluate how closely a proposition meet the definition of fact or truth by assessing objective, external, evidence for or against it. So we suppose if religion didn't match a person's internal definition for factual, than that person could not be guilt tripped into any conversion that would result the religion being assessed as factual anyway.

I think that supposition is not really true with many people. Many people have no clear internal definition of what is true and what is factual. Therefore they do not have any repeatable or consistent way to measure what is true and what is factual. Instead they let a complex smog of feelings and emotions dictate to them what they would accept as being true and factual. Such people certainly can be guilt tripped into a real conversion.

Fair.

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Guilt is associated strongly with Christianity.

"You've displeased god.  You must repent, and follow our rules if you want to get into heaven.  You want to go to heaven, don't you?"

They are told he is all loving and merciful, and they are shown how cruel and horrible he can be.  But they fail to see the contradiction.

They think god is above humanity, and thus his cruelty is just.  As if Cruelty can ever be just.  They think they deserve it, and that might just be the saddest thing of all.

I wholeheartedly agree:

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I grew up in an atheist family, so I can't accurately emulate that feeling of guilt. But if I were to be able to feel it, coming from a loved one, I would think they were stupid.

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Does anyone know of a person or even a story of a person who has been "guilt tripped" into any religion by a follower, and them sticking to that religion

I guess it rather happens to make people stay. When I was a child, being brought up as a Catholic, the priests guilt tripped us on any given occasion. If you do this or that, you're going to hell. The most revolting instance I remember, was one of these guys telling us kids, god would take what's most dear to us, if we sin. So, kind of like a Mafia boss threatening the family, if you don't show proper respect.

I can't imagine an atheist being guilt tripped into religion. If you don't believe in possible consequences, you won't feel guilt.

In that situation, I like to step back and see how the person reacts to religious backtalk.

Do they get red in the face and shout? Then they most likely use their religion as moral justification for whatever their opinion is.

Do they stay calm and collected? Then they genuinely believe that God will provide and have no trouble, that there is no place god has receded, and that all sinners and nonbeleivers truly are just lost souls and if god deems it so they will join faith.

Both are completely illogical and a waste of air.

[Simon Moon]

Does anyone know of a person or even a story of a person who has been "guilt tripped" into any religion by a follower, and them sticking to that religion

It's a theory of mine that there are only two ways of someone legitimately joining a religion.

1: If they are born into the religion (grew up with both parents avidly believing/urging child to participate)

2: They are facing a difficult time in their life (e.g. an old man facing death, an abuse victim of any kind)

Furthermore, I believe that religion, before modern society was a kind of psychologist in that it helped people with a wide range of concerns.

This is why I want to know: has anyone ever legitimately joined a religion because of a threat?

Depends on what you mean by 'joining a religion'. 

If you mean that they accept the tenets of the religion as being true, then no.

Belief is functionally defined by cognitive scientists as, the psychological state in which one accepts a premise or proposition as being true. 

People accept a premise or proposition as being true because they are convinced. They can be convinced for good reasons or they can be convinced by bad reasons. 

I just can't imagine a person legitimately accepting all the ridiculous premises and propositions that religions make as being true, simply based on guilt or threat. 

As others have said, they may go through the motions to cover their ass.

[CapnAwesome]

I don't think Atheists are the primary people to convert. Most converts are from other religions.

[CristW]

Hello, I am not converting to any religion or reverting back into believing in angels and the soul(or spirit). No threat is going to change me back. I would rather die than convert to any backward religion. However, there are some so-called atheists who would bend over backwards (or forwards) to please their fellow conservatives and still have the "nerve" to call themselves an atheist. What a joke!

I have concluded that there are no conservative atheists. It is practically a contradiction in action (and terms). How could a conservative atheist believe in social values and then claim to believe in a "soul"? I am an ex-muslim. So, when I see this (and hear it) it would simply not register because you are either a religious believer or a disbeliever and there is no middle ground. Plus, I am still full of virtues taught to me by my Muslim (Islamic) training.

My own experience would suggest that you could be an Atheist and still follow some form of social virtues. IN OTHER WORDS, you could deny the existence of a "soul" and still follow (the current ) social virtues. The brainwashing, of the current so-called atheists conservatives, into thinking that virtues derive from a "soul" is a folly waiting to happen.