Doctor Who, Season Nine

[Bad Wolf]

Both Amy and Clara have partners who the doctor repeatedly belittles in front of the women.

How is that sexist?

When we're first introduced to River she's intelligent, strong, and independent. But she just regresses from there 

That's because the first time we meet River Song, she is basically from the furtherst part of the doctors future. She knows everything about the doctor, and all the adventures they've had. She gets progressively less confident and independant the more we see her, because every time we see her, she's had less and less adventures with the doctor, she has less experience and she is younger.

[Cato]

I don't think so, the first study was done in response to multiple people noting that Moffat is blatantly sexist in Doctor Who and Sherlock (which by the way I don't watch), and looked to objectively assess whether it was true. The other study was inspired by the first study, but looked beyond the constraints of the direct criteria for the Bechdel Test to objectify the observed incidences of sexism further.

You're supporting the point being made in the conversation. The manufactured metrics are bunk. What is important, and consistent with how the conversation has developed, is what you did after the above quotation: engage the content for discussions of potential sexism.

[Aractus]

Both Amy and Clara have partners who the doctor repeatedly belittles in front of the women.

How is that sexist?

Because it's one of the many things that is demeaning to women specifically. "Oh really, YOU chose THAT guy?"

One of my friends had let's not say commitment issues, but certainly frustrations with her partner for a number of years - 2 or 3 in all. They've since gotten married and are very happy, but when she said to me that she was unhappy because A, B, and C I didn't say to her "oh well what do you expect when you chose a douche like that ratbag to form a relationship with". That would have been belittling her choice. It would have been sexist if I had - blaming her for his idiosyncrasies. I had a feeling it would pan itself out, and it did.

And what I actually said, by the way, was that you should be talking to him about these issues as he might be honestly unaware of them. I believe she did that, and he realised that certain behaviours (such as emptying the bank account without warning) were not acceptable within their relationship, and took the opportunity to grow and mature as a person.

When we're first introduced to River she's intelligent, strong, and independent. But she just regresses from there 

That's because the first time we meet River Song, she is basically from the furtherst part of the doctors future. She knows everything about the doctor, and all the adventures they've had. She gets progressively less confident and independant the more we see her, because every time we see her, she's had less and less adventures with the doctor, she has less experience and she is younger.

Well, what it tells me is that Moffat thinks behind a strong independent female is one who is a weak, dependant, pathetic, manipulative one.

[Esquilax]

That's because the first time we meet River Song, she is basically from the furtherst part of the doctors future. She knows everything about the doctor, and all the adventures they've had. She gets progressively less confident and independant the more we see her, because every time we see her, she's had less and less adventures with the doctor, she has less experience and she is younger.

I'm actually okay with that aspect- seeing a character's growth in reverse is interesting, as is their reliance on another character in that chronological order- but what really bothers me about River is how her backstory serves to reduce both her and Amy. River doesn't just get less independent, her entire character is literally wrapped around the Doctor's through no choice of her own, and her whole relationship with him turns out to be weird, mind-controlled wife grooming. And notice that once she reaches the end of that relationship, once she's fully confident and surpasses the Doctor... she's killed off. Her whole life- and death- is nothing but a tool for the male protagonist's story.

And I shouldn't even have to point out the problems this raises for Amy; she spends basically a whole season with her sole utility being her womb, and the show goes on to intimate that since she can no longer have kids, she should divorce her husband, as though the entirety of her value as a person is tied up in her ability to be a mother. Not to mention, she's a character who is entirely informed by two other male characters, and seems to have no interests outside of them that actually persist beyond one episode stints, mostly to justify the plot.

This is something that Doctor Who's been getting better at- Clara's actually got some shit of her own to deal with these last two seasons, though even she started out as an extension of the Doctor- but it's not all there yet. I think part of the problem is that the character writing is so loosely sketched and overshadowed by plots that the characters mostly just walk into, as opposed to actively instigating. It's harder to give protagonists rich inner lives when they spend the majority of their time oncsreen completely isolated from their home environments and the things that inform who they are as people.

[Silver]

I'm a Zygon.

[I_am_not_mafia]

I'm a Zygon.  

We guessed.

[Bad Wolf]

If there is one thing we can all agree on, it's that the writing has gotten progressivly worse since Tennant!

[Tiberius]

Because it's one of the many things that is demeaning to women specifically. "Oh really, YOU chose THAT guy?"

The problem I have with your interpretation of the Doctor as sexist because of this, is that it just doesn't pan out that way. I think the Doctor actually does this because underneath all the boldness and heroics, he is insecure. Let's take Amy and Clara as examples:

With Amy, he meets her as a little girl, and then takes her on as a companion later, the night before her wedding (which she hides from him). However, as soon as he realizes this, and she tries to kiss him, he rejects her advances and even tells Rory, and then tries to patch up their relationship by taking them both on a "romantic" trip to Venice. However, I think he assumed that once everything was patched up, he would be alone with Amy again, and that didn't happen. Instead, Amy took Rory along with her, and the Doctor was insecure about this, hence Rory being belittled all the time. The Doctor wants to be number 1 in his companion's eyes, and every time the series hints that Amy thinks of the Doctor as more important than Rory, it turns out the complete opposite is true. I forget the episode, but it's where Rory can hear Amy talking and interprets her words of adoration as being about the Doctor, but in fact she was talking about him the entire time.

The entire series builds on the strength of the Amy / Rory relationship, and the Doctor's eventual acceptance that he is number 2. This is probably best shown in the episode with Stonehenge, where Amy is dead, and the Doctor refuses to save her because the universe is more important, and Rory punches him for saying so. The Doctor was just testing the duplicate version of Rory to see if his love was genuine. A bit later, Rory refuses to use the vortex manipulator with the Doctor, instead staying behind to guard the Pandorica with Amy inside.

Ultimately, of course, Amy chooses to be touched by a weeping angel and spend the rest of her life with Rory, and never seeing the Doctor again. Once again cementing the view that the Doctor is number 2 in her eyes.


Now with Clara, I think the relationship between Doctor and Companion is changed, because Clara is more independent. Rather than spending all her time on the TARDIS as most companions do, she has a day job, and only sees the Doctor from time to time. I think this is interpreted as the Doctor trying to be less insecure; less attached to his companions. He is still slightly insecure though, as his reaction to Danny Pink is demeaning at first. Of course, by the end of the series, that view has completely reversed, and Clara tries to destroy the TARDIS keys in order to save Danny, which the Doctor admires and tries to help her do.


I really don't think the show is sexist at all. I just think that a show called Doctor Who is going to have the Doctor as the main character, and of course he's going to be better than any of the other characters in terms of intellect and power, but I think people are forgetting the strong female characters that the show has had in the past:

1) Rose Tyler - Absorbs the time vortex, becomes the Bad Wolf, destroys the Daleks, saves humanity, all on her own. Yes, she needs to be saved by the Doctor, but that's more to do with her human form than anything, not her sex. In the later series, she single-handedly jumps between realities and destroys Daleks in order to prevent the reality bomb.

2) Martha Jones - Saves the world from the Master.

3) Donna Noble - Literally becomes half-timelord and saves all reality from being destroyed. Also notable as the only female companion in the new series not to be infatuated by the Doctor. Possibly one of the strongest female characters the show has had.

4) River Song - Yes, she calls on the Doctor to save her a number of times, but she also saves the Doctor on multiple occasions. Also shows herself to be more intelligent than the Doctor on a number of things, such as flying the TARDIS.

5) Clara - Walks into the Doctor's time stream and saves him numerous times throughout his life. Convinces the Doctor(s) that using the Moment is the worst idea, and that together they can save the time lords and destroy the Daleks another way. Honestly, I think her character peaked at this point; I don't particularly like Clara's character in the current season.

[Tiberius]

It's official. Moffat is sexist, perhaps not as much as some of the classic-era Who, but way more than RTD:

I think that graphic is misleading. Especially with speaking times. Firstly, it doesn't compare the speaking time to the Doctor. Honestly, 2-3 minutes of speaking time for a character in a 45 minute show, where a lot of action occurs, is pretty impressive. So before we cast judgement based on that, it should really show the following:

Total speaking time (of all characters, combined)
Total speaking time (of the Doctor)
Total speaking time (of female characters)
Total speaking time (of male characters other than the Doctor)

Though honestly, speaking time is not a good indicator of sexism anyway. Neither is the Bechdel test in my opinion. Rather, we should look at the actual characters, whether they exhibit sexist behaviors, and whether they exhibit stereotypical gender based behaviors. Even then, it might not be a very good indicator, because ultimately some people will interpret behaviors differently. For example, is Amy's character sexist because she makes no attempts to hide the fact that she is sexually attracted to the Doctor even around her boyfriend, or is that empowering because she is a strong-minded woman? It goes both ways.

[Bad Wolf]

It doesn't matter if there are alternative and perfectly plausible explanations, if it can be interpreted as sexist, then it must be sexist (sarcasm)