Oh, Fuck....

[Minimalist]

That went downhill fast...

That's what happens when you don't keep the religious fucktards locked up in their churches.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

That went downhill fast...

That's what happens when you don't keep the religious fucktards locked up in their churches.

Actually, it's exactly what was predicted by De la démocratie en Amérique (aka Democracy in America ) by Alexis de Tocqueville, in 1831. (Ironically, he was actually sent here to look at our early system of penitentiaries, which were heavily religion-based, back then, but used the money to study our whole society, instead.) He noted that we gave our religions absolute protection and free rein, without government entanglement, and that our society was heavily Puritanical in nature. He mused that the combination would result in a heavily religious country while the European powers, with heavy entanglement, would instead move toward secularism. He has proved somewhat prophetic in this regard.

[Minimalist]

I read de Tocqueville in college....more years ago than I care to admit.

Around the same time - probably for the same class - I read Parkman's History of the French and Indian War and, since I was at the State University of NY at Oswego it was interesting that Fort Oswego was such an instrumental part of the Comte du Montcalm's campaign.  I noted that the "fort" never managed to hold out against an attack for more than a few days in the lounge one night.  One of my buddies looked out the window, where it was snowing and blowing as usual, and said "why would anyone fight to stay here?"  The Fort was a few miles from where we were sitting.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

I read de Tocqueville in college....more years ago than I care to admit.

Around the same time - probably for the same class - I read Parkman's History of the French and Indian War and, since I was at the State University of NY at Oswego it was interesting that Fort Oswego was such an instrumental part of the Comte du Montcalm's campaign.  I noted that the "fort" never managed to hold out against an attack for more than a few days in the lounge one night.  One of my buddies looked out the window, where it was snowing and blowing as usual, and said "why would anyone fight to stay here?"  The Fort was a few miles from where we were sitting.

Cool!

As for de Tocqueville, I also read it in college... and I'm just not going to think about how long ago that was, right now.

[Fake Messiah]

One wonders how much is being spent to protect his sorry ass.

Yes in some countries, back in Ratzinger days, people would protest because of the price, like in Spain. I think there is also undisclosed amount of money that is being payed to Vatican directly.

Pope Francis has been quite clear on his disdain of pedo priests and those who sheltered them, and ordered a thorough investigation and housecleaning almost immediately on taking office.

He has come out directly and stated that the Big Bang and the Theory of Evolution are not only correct, but central to an understanding of the process of creation according to Catholic doctrine.

Yes, but he hasn't done anything except criticizing pedo priests. And when it comes to evolution you know if he "embraces" it he's a hypocrite because without Adam and Eve there is not Christianity and it's fuckin' sin.

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Yes, but he hasn't done anything except criticizing pedo priests. And when it comes to evolution you know if he "embraces" it he's a hypocrite because without Adam and Eve there is not Christianity and it's fuckin' sin.

How do you know that's all he's done? If I were in his (weird little) shoes, I would not want to expose the underbelly of my organization; I would consider that a breach of the trust the Bishops placed in me when they voted me into the office. Is what happened to those children horrible? Of course! And we need to continue to lean on the Vatican, per the 2014 UN commission report, to obey its obligations as a nation and signatory to the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

As for Evolution violating the concept of the "original sin" passed down through Adam, their position is and has always been more nuanced than the envangelical/fundamentalist literal-version. I've discussed it in other threads and don't really feel like getting into it, here... but there are a large number of Catholic clergy who are also involved in scientific research of various types, including evolutionary biology. This Pope is actually listening to what they're telling the organization, and changing their doctrine to reflect the "Galilean" reality. Considering it took them nearly 400 years to do it with the actual Galileo findings, I'd say Francis is making remarkable progress.

[Minimalist]

Oh, I have no doubt that they have worked out all sorts of sophistry since Darwin forced them into it.  But F/M's point remains standing:  If the Fall of Man story is not real then who needs fucking jesus to die?

If there is no original sin then jesus could have gone to Las Vegas with his homies and gotten plastered and it wouldn't make fuckall of a difference.

[Fake Messiah]

Yes, but he hasn't done anything except criticizing pedo priests. And when it comes to evolution you know if he "embraces" it he's a hypocrite because without Adam and Eve there is not Christianity and it's fuckin' sin.

How do you know that's all he's done? If I were in his (weird little) shoes, I would not want to expose the underbelly of my organization; I would consider that a breach of the trust the Bishops placed in me when they voted me into the office. Is what happened to those children horrible? Of course! And we need to continue to lean on the Vatican, per the 2014 UN commission report, to obey its obligations as a nation and signatory to the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Well we still see bishops and cardinals who covered up pedophiles going around like nothing happened. Yeah he probably told them to pray five hailmaries and they're off the cuff. Also this pop Francis is canonizing John Paul II next year: How can a pope responsible for shielding clergy members who sexually abused children possibly be made a saint? The new pope would show very poor judgment if he canonized the protector of a monster like Marcial Maciel. But then again most saints are horrible monsters seen trough secular morals, like Pius XII or mother Theresa.

He's against gay marriage, he's against contraceptive, against abortion. And you know how much murder it causes to tell people not to use condoms in this AIDS world? Not just that but they tell them condoms actually cause AIDS

And let's face it if he was a nice guy he would stop with the charade and tell catholics it's all a fraud to make money, just like head of Scientology should do.

[brewer]

Is the Pope a Profit?

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/24/scalpers-...s-ire.html

[Fake Messiah]

Yeah Ratzinger did the similar in England but he "legally" sold tickets to the mass and he defended himself that that was the way organizers were paying to him (that undisclosed amount of money that goes to Vatican.

Also I know this was mentioned yesterday in different topic but I wold like to repeat that Native Americans are protesting against pope Francis because he just made a saint of Junipero Serra who was notorious criminal a Franciscan who kept slave farms of Native Americans where they were kept in very bad conditions and Natives who resisted or refused conversion were beaten, imprisoned, starved, exiled or driven from their homelands—usually by soldiers, at the behest of priests.

More recently, retired Bishop Francis A. Quinn apologized to the Miwok Indians during a Mass at the Church of St. Raphael in San Rafael California; Bishop Quinn admitted that missionaries “took the Indian out of the Indian,” and imposed “a European Catholicism upon the natives.” He also admitted that mission soldiers and priests had raped Indian women and enforced missionary rules with brutal and violent punishments. Perhaps most stunning, Bishop Quinn agreed with what some of us have long known: that Indians were civilized, had forms of religion, education, art, governance and agricultural knowledge long before the Spanish arrived bent on conversion and their own version of civilization.

Nevertheless pope Frainics claims: “He was the embodiment of a church which goes forth — a church which sets out everywhere the reconciling tenderness of God,” Junipero sought to defend the dignity of the native community, to protect it from those who have mistreated and abused it.”
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.co...not-158863