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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
October 19, 2015 at 3:08 pm
(October 19, 2015 at 12:30 pm)Chad32 Wrote: There's a verse somewhere of Jesus saying "Before Moses, I Am". In the old testament Yahweh says he is the great I am. There are many verses indicating that Jesus is an entirely different person, and one of his most well known traits is humility. We all know the god of the old testament is anything but humble.
It's a contradiction among a long list of contradictions.
Quote:58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple,[n] going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NKJV Which kind of defeats the whole purpose of this exercise. His contemporaries put up with his bullshit until he expressly claimed to be god. These type of theists will dance left, right, and sideways to avoid this obvious implication. 
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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
October 19, 2015 at 3:23 pm
(This post was last modified: October 19, 2015 at 3:51 pm by jenny1972.)
(October 19, 2015 at 3:08 pm)houseofcantor Wrote: (October 19, 2015 at 12:30 pm)Chad32 Wrote: There's a verse somewhere of Jesus saying "Before Moses, I Am". In the old testament Yahweh says he is the great I am. There are many verses indicating that Jesus is an entirely different person, and one of his most well known traits is humility. We all know the god of the old testament is anything but humble.
It's a contradiction among a long list of contradictions.
Quote:58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple,[n] going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NKJV Which kind of defeats the whole purpose of this exercise. His contemporaries put up with his bullshit until he expressly claimed to be god. These type of theists will dance left, right, and sideways to avoid this obvious implication.
yes jesus said " before abraham was , I AM " ( before abraham existed "I AM" existed -God ) jesus makes it clear that he is not God . jesus did not say that he was "I AM" only that before abraham there was I AM
52 Then the Jews said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and You say, ‘If anyone keeps My word he shall never taste death.’ 53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Who do You make Yourself out to be?”
54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your[ m] God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple,[ n] going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today  Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
October 19, 2015 at 3:31 pm
(October 19, 2015 at 3:23 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: (October 19, 2015 at 3:08 pm)houseofcantor Wrote: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se...rsion=NKJV Which kind of defeats the whole purpose of this exercise. His contemporaries put up with his bullshit until he expressly claimed to be god. These type of theists will dance left, right, and sideways to avoid this obvious implication.
yes jesus said " before abraham was , I AM " ( before abraham existed "I AM" existed -God ) jesus makes it clear that he is not God . jesus did not say that he was "I AM"
I guess it being right there in quotation marks twice is somehow not sufficient evidence?
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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
October 19, 2015 at 3:42 pm
(October 19, 2015 at 1:48 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: (October 19, 2015 at 1:05 pm)JesusHChrist Wrote: And now with:
Three!
Three!
Three gods in one!
Like a floor wax.
And it's a dessert topping too !!
I bet you thought I couldn't find that clip?
https://screen.yahoo.com/shimmer-floor-w...00185.html
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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
October 19, 2015 at 3:45 pm
(This post was last modified: October 19, 2015 at 3:47 pm by jenny1972.)
(October 19, 2015 at 3:31 pm)houseofcantor Wrote: (October 19, 2015 at 3:23 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: yes jesus said " before abraham was , I AM " ( before abraham existed "I AM" existed -God ) jesus makes it clear that he is not God . jesus did not say that he was "I AM"
I guess it being right there in quotation marks twice is somehow not sufficient evidence?
right jesus said " before abraham was , I AM " . Gods name is "I AM that I AM" ... so jesus meant that before abraham existed I AM (God) existed . jesus was not saying that he was I AM jesus expressly made the distinction between him and God in everything he said about the issue and just said I AM existed before abraham .
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
October 19, 2015 at 3:47 pm
(October 19, 2015 at 3:45 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: (October 19, 2015 at 3:31 pm)houseofcantor Wrote: I guess it being right there in quotation marks twice is somehow not sufficient evidence?
right jesus said " before abraham was , I AM " . Gods name is "I AM that I AM" ... so jesus meant that before abraham existed I AM (God) existed . jesus was not saying that he was I AM . just that I AM existed before abraham .
How do you come to that conclusion when obviously his audience reached such a different conclusion as to start throwing stones?
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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
October 19, 2015 at 3:58 pm
(This post was last modified: October 19, 2015 at 4:03 pm by jenny1972.)
(October 19, 2015 at 3:47 pm)houseofcantor Wrote: (October 19, 2015 at 3:45 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: right jesus said " before abraham was , I AM " . Gods name is "I AM that I AM" ... so jesus meant that before abraham existed I AM (God) existed . jesus was not saying that he was I AM . just that I AM existed before abraham .
How do you come to that conclusion when obviously his audience reached such a different conclusion as to start throwing stones?
his jewish audience before him assumed that he was saying that he was I AM and they did not have the 20 20 benefit of hindsight all they knew was what he was saying right then and judging him on the things he was saying right then , they were not aware of everything jesus said about God and the clear distinction he always made between himself and God . and dont forget the jews were looking for something that could be blasphemous they were challenging him and looking for something.
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
October 19, 2015 at 4:25 pm
(October 19, 2015 at 3:58 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: (October 19, 2015 at 3:47 pm)houseofcantor Wrote: How do you come to that conclusion when obviously his audience reached such a different conclusion as to start throwing stones?
his jewish audience before him assumed that he was saying that he was I AM and they did not have the 20 20 benefit of hindsight all they knew was what he was saying right then and judging him on the things he was saying right then , they were not aware of everything jesus said about God and the clear distinction he always made between himself and God . and dont forget the jews were looking for something that could be blasphemous they were challenging him and looking for something.
So, what was he saying right then? 
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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
October 19, 2015 at 4:48 pm
(This post was last modified: October 19, 2015 at 4:54 pm by jenny1972.)
(October 19, 2015 at 4:25 pm)houseofcantor Wrote: (October 19, 2015 at 3:58 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: his jewish audience before him assumed that he was saying that he was I AM and they did not have the 20 20 benefit of hindsight all they knew was what he was saying right then and judging him on the things he was saying right then , they were not aware of everything jesus said about God and the clear distinction he always made between himself and God . and dont forget the jews were looking for something that could be blasphemous they were challenging him and looking for something.
So, what was he saying right then?
well they wouldnt let him finish they started throwing rocks at him the interrogation came to a halt midpoint
before abraham there was God ... they did not know God and he did know God they were talking about abraham and jesus said before abraham there was God . he had a relationship with God but he never said he was God just the opposite in everything he said
Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you will join us And the world will be as one - John Lennon
The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also - Mark Twain
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RE: Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?
October 19, 2015 at 4:57 pm
(October 19, 2015 at 4:48 pm)jenny1972 Wrote: (October 19, 2015 at 4:25 pm)houseofcantor Wrote: So, what was he saying right then?
well they wouldnt let him finish they started throwing rocks at him the interrogation came to a halt midpoint
before abraham there was God ... they did not know God and he did know God they were talking about abraham and jesus said before abraham there was God . he had a relationship with God but he never said he was God just the opposite in everything he said
The point of your OP was that Jesus never claimed to be god. But he did, right then. You keep adding your interpretation (for which I can think of no scriptural validation) and excess verbosity to distract from the fact that John 8:58 invalidates your claim.
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