Christians - even the Bible says that Jesus was not God so why do you say he was ?

[jenny1972]

"For there is ONE GOD and one mediator between God and men,
the MAN Christ Jesus" - 1 Tim. 2:5

The Bible, in both Old and New Testaments, is very emphatic about the absolute oneness of God. When asked which is the first commandment of all?"

Jesus answered (Mark 12:29) -
"The first of all the commandments is; Hear, O Israel, THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD."

the concept of the trinity developed around 325 AD before then it didnt exist
http://www.antipas.org/books/trinity/trinity1.html

[John V]

"For there is ONE GOD and one mediator between God and men,
the MAN Christ Jesus" - 1 Tim. 2:5

Col 2
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily

The Bible, in both Old and New Testaments, is very emphatic about the absolute oneness of God. When asked which is the first commandment of all?"

Jesus answered (Mark 12:29) -
"The first of all the commandments is; Hear, O Israel, THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD."

But, if instead of quote mining, you read on, you'd see that Jesus then posed a question to them to get them thinking toward the divinity of the messiah:

Mark 12
35 Then Jesus answered and said, while He taught in the temple, “How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the Son of David? 36 For David himself said by the Holy Spirit:

‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”’
37 Therefore David himself calls Him ‘Lord’; how is He then his Son?”

[jenny1972]

the concept of the trinity is pagan inspired paganism has definately influenced Christianity its not philosophy or interpretation its documented history of the Trinity concept which was invented long after Jesus death

Tertullian who developed this trinity concept was a man who was raised as a pagan and converted in his 40's to Christianity and although conservative, he did originate and advance new theology to the early Church which never existed before most importantly the concept of the Trinity
http://www.tertullian.org/


Scripture contains neither the word Trinity, nor an expressly formulated doctrine of the Trinity. Rather, according to the Christian theology, it "bears witness to" (as some believe) the activity of a God who can only be understood in trinitarian terms. The doctrine did not take its definitive shape until late in the fourth century.

During the intervening period, various tentative solutions, some more and some less satisfactory were proposed. the trinity concept that we have now is much different than what was originally developed 150+ years after Jesus death

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Col 2
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily

yes dwells IN Jesus , dont you believe that God dwells in you and inspires you? thats why Jesus said " i go to my Father and your Father , my God and your God "

[John V]

Proverbs 25
2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter,
But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

[jenny1972]

The early manuscript of Matthew from the second century, and which is a ‘critical edition' in that it incorporates all the variant versions of the manuscript relating to the text in question. Here there is no virgin birth story, but rather there is a genealogy in variant forms wherein Joseph is the father of Jesus, and not God or a holy ghost. Variant A became the traditional text which now concludes the genealogy in our ‘authorized' copies of Matthew. The text diverges to list the variants in the different manuscripts. The Syriac variant from the second century, wherein Joseph is explicitly referenced as the father of the Jesus figure.

The Greek variant is an abbreviated version of the Syriac text, and states "And Joseph begat Jesus, the one called Christ." Both the Syriac and Greek variants have no ‘virgin birth myth', which is an indication that the virgin birth mythology had not become a part of the authorized lexicon of the Matthew gospel during the second century, but that copies of the manuscript without the virgin birth story were still extant and circulating at that time.

http://www.awitness.org/essays/virgin.html

The Syriac manuscript includes no virgin birth mythology, since once again it was Joseph who ‘begat Jesus', and the genealogy, in part, reads in translation, ": "Eliud begat Eleazar, Eleazar begat Matthan, Matthan begat Jacob, Jacob begat Joseph; Joseph, to whom was betrothed a young woman, Mary, begat Jesus who is called Messiah."

Versions of the manuscript which were still circulating in the second century without the virgin birth story, which had not at that time become part of the canonical and thus accepted rendition of Matthew (itself a product of cutting pieces from all the variants to come up with a standard version ... this is not in itself a simple task, given the hundreds of thousands of variant readings for all New Testament manuscripts in existence, the scale of this problem being very familiar to translators but less well known to the average Bible reader ... the end product is the result of innumerable human value judgments, with what we would call a canon becoming a formal creation only in the fourth century).

[John V]

LMAO - you need a better source than that. That's really pathetic.

[jenny1972]

LMAO - you need a better source than that. That's really pathetic.

is the gospel of Mark a good source ? it was the earliest of the gospels

There is no suggestion of a virgin birth in Mark's gospel, and the first we hear of it is in the Gospel of Matthew. Mark's gospel tells the story of a radical Jewish rabbi who led his people in rebellion against the religious system of the day, and was crucified for this very reason. Like a good Jew, in Mark's gospel Christ insists that no one call him good, ‘for there is no one good except God alone,' and that if you want to find salvation and enter the kingdom of heaven, you should keep the commandments of God (a very Jewish response which you can contrast with the later Christian theological description of salvation described in the formula ‘believe in me and thou shalt be saved.' This concept is alien to Mark's gospel, and is also uncharacteristic of the other synoptic gospels.) Mark's Christ is a very Jewish rabbi and revolutionary, while Matthew's Christ becomes a divine being incarnated.

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It is one of the great myths of Christian theology that the New Testament presents a unified picture of the divinity of Christ. Actually the Bible contains many different opinions on this matter, and actually insists that Christ was not a god, that Christ was born in the usual way, in that Joseph was his father, that Christ was in subordinate position to God, among other things.

    In Mark's gospel Christ is 'the son of man' and is angered to be called 'good', much less to be called a God. If you want to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven 'keep the commandments', Mark teaches, while in John's gospel Christ becomes the incarnate Greek 'logos' and you are saved by 'believing in him.' Notice that in the following passage a man rushes forward to kneel in a worshipful way before Christ, and calls him 'good' provoking Christ to anger...When asked the 'big question' which is 'what must I do to be saved' Christ answers him curtly in such a way as to suggest that he already knows the answer to that question (so why did he bother to ask?)

   "And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’" (Mark Chapter 10 verse 17)


[b]Compare this doctrine by Jesus to that of classical Christian theology today ......
Christ was good, in fact he was perfectly good and completely infallible in his god like perfection, being God incarnate and born of virgin. You are not saved by keeping the commandments. As the church dogma states, 'even the unsaved good burn in hell without Christ.' You are only saved by 'believing in Christ.' The gospel of Mark was written long before the church developed theology, purportedly based on the 'teachings of the divine and inerrant scriptures' and so we see that Mark was entirely unfamiliar with this later dogma.[/b]

[John V]

Back to C&Ping any crap you can find...stick a fork in her...she's done!

[Hmmm?]

Stick a fork in her?

[jenny1972]

"And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: ‘Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’" (Mark Chapter 10 verse 17) Jesus did not say believe in me and through me you will be saved that concept was created much much later (hundreds of years later)

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Stick a fork in her?

lol

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Back to C&Ping any crap you can find...stick a fork in her...she's done!

why are you against learning the history of the Trinity that developed several hundreds of years after Jesus you are copy and pasting scripture right ?

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Proverbs 25
2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter,
But the glory of kings is to search out a matter.

i agree with that search out a matter and find out for yourself dont just believe investigate we should not think we know everything , or that human teachers know everything that base their beliefs on the neat package that the politically driven corrupt catholic church has been peddling for the last 2000 years and instead seek out the history and truth behind it and let God guide you not human teachers who are following doctrine that theyve been taught by other human teachers .