Forum theists: when you have a moment, please...

[GrandizerII]

Only appears to be harmful? Who decides whether one's pain is an illusion? And it's not "restorative justice" if too many people are going to be ultimately punished at the end.

I may not understand why Hitler did exactly what he did, but that doesn't mean I don't have good reasons to judge that he did a lot of wrong, and doesn't change the fact that someone like him invokes a feeling of revolt and disgust at him due to what I deem unethical acts against others.

In themselves pain and pleasure serve poorly a moral guides and even then require a higher principle to distinguish between good and bad pleasures and good and bad pain. Other than that your only argument is your incredulity.

Who decides whether they are poor moral guides? That is up to each individual at the end of the day.

And higher principle or not, that doesn't really matter. Even if I knew nothing of God's purpose, again, based on what I know and experience, I can still be justified in my judgement of God. If all I can see is God being a tyrant bully, and all the plethora of evidence is pointing that way for me, then that would be a reasonable judgement for me to make.

If God is hurt by such judgements, then I'm open to hearing his side of the story. But he will have to utter something. He can't keep being severely shy forever.

[John V]

Seriously, whenever a theist is making good points, other atheists jump in with the standard red herrings to thorw things off course. Why would I bother making threads when I know this will happen?

Why would any atheist entertain a debate consisting solely of the same drivel many of us were force-fed from the day we were born.

I don't know why, but some do start threads on those terms. Then, if it's not going well, other atheists jump in with red herrings. If those others could manage to keep their figurative mouths shut when they don't have anything on-topic to say, there'd be better discussion.

[Godscreated]

 I disagree, some of you have read the Bible but you take to it with a negative attitude, biased against it. Actually I've seen little from you that would make me believe you understand the Bible. 

GC

There may very well be atheists here who have read and studied the Bible objectively. There are certainly several who have studied the book with bias towards it at some point...no shortage of ex-theists here. Why does understanding the Bible mean accepting it in its entirety as truth, in your eyes?

 I don't expect any atheist to accept the entire Bible, what I would expect is an honest look at what Christians say. I wanted to avoid this phrase but I guess in the end it's not possible, "cherry picking," is no way to try and understand the Bible, I've tried to avoid "cherry picking" scientific books and haven't used any such practice here. Most all the teachings in scripture cover more than one book and many cover both the OT and NT. Most atheist just get mad when accused of "cherry picking" instead of trying to understand the whole of the teaching through many verses and books. Would you use this practice in school studies, of coarse not, it's no way to learn.

GC

[Godscreated]

 I disagree, some of you have read the Bible but you take to it with a negative attitude, biased against it. Actually I've seen little from you that would make me believe you understand the Bible. 

GC

And I've seen nothing from you that would make me believe that you ever even attempt to view the Bible outside its own self-referential loop. Circular reasoning and unsupported assertions are all you appear to have. People who view everything from inside the loop and people who don't will inevitably have different ideas about what "understanding the Bible" means.

 What exactly am I to look at outside a book that is based on a spiritual relationship with God, it's not intended to be a complete book of history nor science, it actually opposes some of what we understand in the physical world, it's a book about how God planed and plans to deal with mankind.

GC

[Godscreated]

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I've not started many threads and the ones I have, haven't been for a lot of comments. The reason I do not start threads that will be conversation pieces is because most atheist here do not want to have intelligent conversation about God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or the Bible, instead they want to insult and derail such conversations. I find most atheist do not know enough about the Bible to have those kinds of conversations, this is not intended as demeaning, it's just fact. They rely on Google or whatever to get as little info as they can to make comments. Using a verse or two for these kinds of conversations is inappropriate for these types of conversations. They also use what others say as fact whether they get it from the forum or the net, they do not know enough about scriptures to form their own opinions, believe me I've tried to get original ideas from them. Again I'm not saying any of this as demeaning, it's what I've observed over the last five years. So I would rather join in on threads where I find interest.

GC

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We do want to have intelligent conversations, but we also want to hear things that we haven't seen a hundred times before. i know that you are a bit stymied because the texts are set and unchangeable but there must be new takes on these things, ones that can't be torn apart by my twelve year old son would be nice.

  Not we, very few here actually want to enter a conversation about the Bible and/or God with any intelligent conversation, most of it is jokes or down right hateful. I have a suggestion read this thread and see that the Christians are saying the same thing, we should know we wind up on the short end of the stick and the atheist are making statements they want to, yet I'm telling you honestly very few do and to those that do I say thank you. By the way no one here has ever torn apart any verse I've explain, yep they have claimed to have but no hasn't happened. Another thing atheist gang up on Christians derailing conversation with a bunch of trash, as if they didn't want the conversation to go on, every Christian here now and in the past have complained about this, but I guess all of us are wrong simple because we are Christians, right.

GC

[Godscreated]

 I disagree, some of you have read the Bible but you take to it with a negative attitude, biased against it. Actually I've seen little from you that would make me believe you understand the Bible. 

GC

I disagree with you in a respectful way and then you personally insult me. I see you haven't changed much, GC.

Think what you want, I know enough about the bible and science  that I'm confident in my beliefs - or, more specifically, my non-beliefs.

 
  What! insult you really. I wasn't insulting you or anyone else, I was stating what I've seen, so make of my statement what will satisfy your biased of me and my beliefs. Think what you want, I know much about the Bible and I know enough about science that I'm confident in my beliefs.

GC

[Godscreated]

 I disagree, some of you have read the Bible but you take to it with a negative attitude, biased against it. Actually I've seen little from you that would make me believe you understand the Bible. 

GC

Yet you understand the bible how your parents and/or pastor wanted you to understand it.

 Wrong as usual, I have studied scripture for many years with open eyes and mind I have different views on some of the doctrines of my parents, pastor and the Southern Baptist Church to which I belong. Some of what I see differently is main doctrine of the Southern Baptist Church, so yep, your wrong. I depend on God through the Holy Spirit to teach me, though I do depend on others who are smarter than I am and have studied much longer, I never study the scriptures without asking God to show me His truth.

GC

[Godscreated]

@ those who care to read, Thena323 asked a question and I responded, she then responded and I answered again, she is the original poster and I felt it was what I should do. The rest that have jumped in to tell me that I'm wrong and your right I answered also, I'll answer no more except for Thena323 if she has anything else for me. I'm tired of the same old game, I'm going to limit my responses to the one I first post to, whether it be the original poster or someone commenting within the thread. I'm not trying to be hard nosed about this, I need to limit my time here because I'm busy at this time of year and have a big woodworking project I need to spend time with. I also am really tired of being ganged up on, just like the rest of the Christians here.

GC

[Athene]

There may very well be atheists here who have read and studied the Bible objectively. There are certainly several who have studied the book with bias towards it at some point...no shortage of ex-theists here. Why does understanding the Bible mean accepting it in its entirety as truth, in your eyes?

 I don't expect any atheist to accept the entire Bible, what I would expect is an honest look at what Christians say. I wanted to avoid this phrase but I guess in the end it's not possible, "cherry picking," is no way to try and understand the Bible, I've tried to avoid "cherry picking" scientific books and haven't used any such practice here. Most all the teachings in scripture cover more than one book and many cover both the OT and NT. Most atheist just get mad when accused of "cherry picking" instead of trying to understand the whole of the teaching through many verses and books. Would you use this practice in school studies, of coarse not, it's no way to learn.

GC

It's difficult to not "cherry pick" when something is presented as the inerrant and/or infallible Word of God. Can you really fault atheists for drawing attention to Biblical inaccuracies and inconsistencies when you consider the claim of it being The Absolute Truth? Even maintaining that the Bible is simply God's infallible word, written by fallible men presents a major plot hole, doesn't it?

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Am I only one who thinks it would be great to see more threads started by some of the established theists on these forums? 

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I'm not trying to be snooty or discourage theists that have recently joined from participating, but there has been a massive influx of new members starting threads that are just insane.

It would be nice to see more conversations started by theists who know what they're talking about and happen to be familiar with the rules of engagement. 

Just a thought.

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Yes, you are the only one who thinks that such a thing would be great.