What if we're all wrong though?

[Minimalist]

God created the devil and uses him as he sees fit

Makes 'god' something of a scumbag, doesn't it?

[tackattack]

Why? If neither the devil nor God have control of our free will, only present us with opportunities to choose good or evil why are they the scumbags? Do you blame the devil when you're kicking kittens min ? j/k on that last part

[Minimalist]

Humans make their own hell. We need no silly gods or demons for that.

I used to like kittens.

[Scented Nectar]

Do yoou deny the culpability of mankind? Do yoou deny the positive things attributed to him?

Christians are always saying that humans are culpable for the bad shit, while godboy is praised and attributed for positive things. You just did it again. There is no great big test of good and evil, Tack. If there were such a test, why? Does your god not already know who would pass or fail? Why would he need so badly to run such a test when the result would be a ton of eternal suffering for many of his beloved children? Huh? Why? Oh yeah, one of those greater purposes we mere humans can't possibly understand? They vague importance of keeping free will (in regards to punishable sins) outweighs the inevitable eternal punishment many will get as a result of the godtest? Give me a break....

[tackattack]

I agree it's not a test. I don't attribute the good things men do to God, but to men, nor do I attribute the bad things men do to God, just to men. The only thing I attribute to God is creation, guidance and God's Love. Keep dancing around the question, it doesn't get old at all.

[Scented Nectar]

I agree it's not a test. I don't attribute the good things men do to God, but to men, nor do I attribute the bad things men do to God, just to men. The only thing I attribute to God is creation, guidance and God's Love. Keep dancing around the question, it doesn't get old at all.

I'm not sure which question you think I'm dancing around. I can understand why you might think there is a creator for our world/universe, but if you are going to make him a personal, involved god who guides and loves you, you have added wishful thinking to the picture. You have turned your answer to 'where did we all come from' into an invisible friend who comforts you and helps you.

Hey, invisible friends are a great segue to a song by my favourite band, Trike...

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geOo1180AAc

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[mem]

I agree it's not a test. I don't attribute the good things men do to God, but to men, nor do I attribute the bad things men do to God, just to men. The only thing I attribute to God is creation, guidance and God's Love. Keep dancing around the question, it doesn't get old at all.

Ok so I'm having a shitty time at the present. How do I get God to guide me? Genuine question. I've been a catholic from birth til I was 16 (am now 46) not once in my life has God ever given me guidance or comfort or anything. I would love to have faith to fall back on-life would be a lot less scary if I had a sky daddy- but I never got a damn thing not once.

[Ramsin.Kh]

To discuss about the possibility of suffering in "hell" is totally pointless, because:
a) If your current position is in hell, then you never experience satisfaction/pleasure and comfort, and you're suffering forever.
b) If you're only suffering, then there is no place for comfort/pleasure, and therefore you're not experiencing non-suffering.
c) If you can't experience any comfort, then you'll start unlearning what comfort/pleasure is.
d) If you don't know what pleasure is, then how can you distinguish pain from pleasure?
e) If you don't experience pleasure, then how can you think of that pain is suffering? Since there is no room for pleasure, you cannot experience the indefinite pain.
f) Propose that someone is offensively hitting you, you'll only feel pain when your body experiences comfort in short moments during the hitting-procedure.
g) Therefore, you are only able to experience pain when your sensory position is transforming from the comfort-state to the suffering-state.
h) Therefore, you are only able to experience pleasure/comfort when your sensory position is transforming from the suffering-state to the comfort-state.
i) Therefore, there is no-suffering in hell.

It's obvious how arrogant and selfish the human nature is, since they fear death.
Even if you're in hell, nothing special happens. I mean, fire is nothing more than electromagnetic radiation and heat. Get real people!

[tackattack]

@ Ramsin.. uhhmm .. I don't know what that was.

@SN- In post 94 you quoted 2 questions I asked and didn't answer either of them, nor haven't in the myriad of pages of our conversations, they're yes or no questions or multiple choice. Here they are again, plus the one you breezed over (probably because I forgot teh ? , my bad).
a-does the concept of the Christian God from the Bible have only amoral character traits?
b-Do you deny the culpability of man to use God's creations for evil or do you blame God for the actions of evil?
c-How does either of the above equate to 50% omnipresent regardless of the answer?

@mem- God isn't a happy vending machine. If your life is shitty, it's not because God's shitting on you, it's because you stepped in dog shit. Clean it off yourself get your life straight. How do I get God to guide me? If you can take a second away from your selfish wants, allow for the possibility that God can and will be a force that exists in your life, and soften your heart to God you might hear him knocking and then you just have to open the door [/end requested preaching]

[mem]

@mem- God isn't a happy vending machine. If your life is shitty, it's not because God's shitting on you, it's because you stepped in dog shit. Clean it off yourself get your life straight. How do I get God to guide me? If you can take a second away from your selfish wants, allow for the possibility that God can and will be a force that exists in your life, and soften your heart to God you might hear him knocking and then you just have to open the door [/end requested preaching

Tried that mate, didnt work for me. Guess I'm not one of the chosen