Is war with China on the horizon?

[Wyrd of Gawd]

What would China gain by starting a war with the US even if it won it? It doesn't have the logistical support system to flood the US territory and the rest of the Western Hemisphere with troops. So it would have to kill almost everyone in the Western Hemisphere.

The US has more to gain by starting a war with China, since it could easily defeat it especially in a surprise attack. Although China is a large country it's a stationary target with a lot of very large population centers. We could easily kill off 90% of the population in one less than an hour and take a couple of missile attacks in return without major problems.

We are arming to the teeth for just such a scenario so it could happen. But if it did who will process our chickens?

[Iroscato]

What would China gain by starting a war with the US even if it won it? It doesn't have the logistical support system to flood the US territory and the rest of the Western Hemisphere with troops. So it would have to kill almost everyone in the Western Hemisphere.

The US has more to gain by starting a war with China, since it could easily defeat it especially in a surprise attack. Although China is a large country it's a stationary target with a lot of very large population centers. We could easily kill off 90% of the population in one less than an hour and take a couple of missile attacks in return without major problems.

We are arming to the teeth for just such a scenario so it could happen. But if it did who will process our chickens?

Are you forgetting both sides possess a nuclear deterrent? It would probably be a bit heavier than 'a couple missile attacks in return'.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

What would China gain by starting a war with the US even if it won it?  It doesn't have the logistical support system to flood the US territory and the rest of the Western Hemisphere with troops.  So it would have to kill almost everyone in the Western Hemisphere.

The US has more to gain by starting a war with China, since it could easily defeat it especially in a surprise attack.  Although China is a large country it's a stationary target with a lot of very large population centers.  We could easily kill off 90% of the population in one less than an hour and take a couple of missile attacks in return without major problems.  

We are arming to the teeth for just such a scenario so it could happen.  But if it did who will process our chickens?

Are you forgetting both sides possess a nuclear deterrent? It would probably be a bit heavier than 'a couple missile attacks in return'.

We could easily destroy all of China in less than an hour.  It's not as if we wouldn't hit their heavy missiles first.

[Anomalocaris]

American missiles are counterforce, meaning design to go after military targets and aimed to take out enemy's military capability and prevent enemy retaliation. Current American nuclear force in total is not sufficient to destroy 90% of China as collateral casualty. Cold War era estimates suggest a limited strike by a force equal to the total nuclear force the US deploy now would inflict only 10-20% casualties upon the Soviet Union. There is little reason to think it would do more to China. So they would inflict maybe 100-200 civilian million casualties. So it is unlikely an American first strike will permanently remove China as an opponent. Rather it would fill a wounded China with a resolve for eventual revenge.

Their heavy missiles are road mobile, and they do drive the mobile erector launcher trucks on their road system all the time, and their road system is the largest in the world. So there is almost zero possibility that any first strike can take out by sheer luck, more than a tiny portion of their road mobile missile inventory before their remaining missiles launch. The whole design of their missile force to geared towards being difficult to pin down and surviving a first strike so as to be able to exact an unacceptable price for having launched the first strike.  So their missiles are countervalue, in other words targeted at soft population, industrial, economic targets. So even though Chinese nuclear forces are only 1/10 the size of American forces, they can be expected to inflict more damage than their number suggests. So they might inflict 5-10 million casualties in the United States. I don't think the United States is ready to let 5-10 million American civilians die so as to win a discretionary war with China.

[volchya]

China doesn't have the funding or supplies to support most of their military, and in event of a NON nuclear war, america would devastate the Chinese mainland in months without a doubt.
The real "challenge" would be with Russia coming to china's support, in which case russia would also have to sit the fuck down and suddenly realize america would control every inch of the skys with superior planes and superior numbers, they would insantly control the seas just by numbers alone, and our heavy armored vehicles are superior as well. Ground troops would tear up russian resistance as well, with the same outcome but taking much longer if an actual invasion of russia occured.
However after this, america would DEFINATELY need some time to get their shit back together after beating russia and china.

[Brian37]

I've been suffering depression since Tomi Lahren left OAN, but now there's a new blonde to take her place!

Here's a quiz for Americans: will America go to war with China, if necessary, to preserve freedom of navigation in the South China Sea?

Or, is it so far away, and American so far in debt, and war weary, that they will just leave as say "to hell with it"?

One thing is for sure: if America leaves, China will steal EVERYTHING down here. So, the whole region will be kowtowing to China, if America leaves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_woVS9LTzs

As an Australian, I'm pessimistic. I think we're screwed. Our new prime minister has a son married to a Chinese lady. We've been compromised already. China is the real deal, goose stepping Nazis. They are mad racist war-hungry f*ckers, IMO. The world is barking mad to keep making them rich, and financing the rise of their military. Stark raving mad.

I am pessimistic not because of boarders or labels but because of evolution itself. When we have disagreements as a species we far to often find it easier to beat the shit out of each other to get what we want than to consider that we are not a separate species.

But I really do get tired of talking about entire populations of even our foes as all bad. Our foes are their leaders, not always everyone living under them. Having lived 49 years every so often I see humans worldwide in every nation, after an escape or daring to speak out or stand up to their leaders, I know you cannot make blanket statements. 

Our species tribalism is always local, but or DNA itself all stems from the same evolution. See Sagan's Pale Blue Dot Speech.

But I am also optimistic that we can as a species chose diplomacy over war, will we is a different story.

[The Grand Nudger]

The US has more to gain by starting a war with China, since it could easily defeat it especially in a surprise attack. 

What do we have to gain?  Really?  The entire country is for sale to the lowest bidder, it seems.  There's no reason to take by force that which can be bought more cheaply than the bullets required to seize it. One day, if they don't collapse (and if we don't), China will stop selling us it's assembly force (we don't actually get our stuff from china..we make it here in the us then export for assembly - importing the assembled goods), but even when that day comes, they're a partner in global commerce. It's hard to turn a profit selling shit to yourself, that you made yourself.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

The US has more to gain by starting a war with China, since it could easily defeat it especially in a surprise attack. 

What do we have to gain?  Really?  The entire country is for sale to the lowest bidder, it seems.  There's no reason to take by force that which can be bought more cheaply than the bullets required to seize it.  One day, if they don't collapse (and if we don't), China will stop selling us it's assembly force (we don't actually get our stuff from china..we make it here in the us then export for assembly - importing the assembled goods), but even when that day comes, they're a partner in global commerce.  It's hard to turn a profit selling shit to yourself, that you made yourself.
 

You're right, there's no real need for war but the reality is that all sides are arming to the teeth for one.  

We have more to gain from starting one because we can control when it starts.  During the Cuban missile crisis we were just a few minutes from nuking Russia.  Don't ever think the US won't attack first.  And we aren't beyond killing everyone in sight once the shooting starts.  

In the meantime China will export Buicks to America and process our chickens and buy our government bonds.  Just the other day several of their warships made a visit to Florida.  It's all cool.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/02/politics/c...t-fkiruda/

[mralstoner]

The Chinese juggernaut continues to gather steam:

https://twitter.com/BonnieGlaser/status/...6283044866

https://twitter.com/lienh/status/666905992131538949

https://twitter.com/Feeney4Batman/status...2511927296

While America dithers, Asia begins to kowtow to Beijing.

'The Hundred-Year Marathon' outlines a long-term Chinese strategy to replace the US as world leader

http://www.csmonitor.com/Books/Book-Revi...rld-leader

In 2003, Pillsbury heard that anti-Americanism was rife within senior levels of the Chinese government from a female Chinese defector whom he calls Ms. Lee. Lee shared a vignette about the Warring States period with a group of American officials.

Between 490 and 470 BC, the story goes, Goujian, the rising challenger aspiring to rule the Chinese world, operated with stealth and secrecy, making false promises and concealing his motivations until he found the right moment to strike down the ruling hegemon or tyrant.

The heads of those two warring states were like China and America today, she said.

According to Pillsbury, few Westerners know the Goujian allegory, but when he asked Chinese scholars who held it up as valuable guidance, one of them said, “if you want to control the  whole world, you better not appear as ambitious…. If you appear as having an agenda you will be revealed”.

This Ms. Lee maintained, was “exactly what China is doing with the West.”

So, the cyber war against America is not an isolated strategy, it's part of a bigger plan to "De-Americanise" the world.

#ChineseGoodsAreNotCheap

[mralstoner]

And China has sunk Vietnamese fishing boats before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mkiTkMVemM