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Atheism and Hope
November 13, 2015 at 12:49 am
I am not a Christian, I am an agnostic.
I believe in the evolutionary process. I believe that the process of natural selection allows for those organisms which are not fit to survive to slowly die out to allow room for organisms with more evolutionarily advantageous traits. If this process is a reality it applies to humans and thus to myself. Neil Tyson once said that no being dies in vain; even ...if weak beings die they do so to ensure that weak traits are not passed down to the next generation. If I am weak, why should I live? If I have evolutionarily disadvantageous traits, why should I continue to survive? How would it not be my duty to my species to die and not have children; thus not passing on my degenerate DNA? How is the suffering worthwhile? What is it that is going to be so great which will make my life worth living?
I have watched some videos on Youtube about atheists and hope. One man says he has hope that less people will be religious (okay...) another says he likes chess and vegetable soup. Another says he likes to spend time with friends. Lets imagine that you aren;t very interested in changing the minds of the world, that you aren't enthralled with chess and vegetable soup and you don't have friends. If Hedonism is all our life has to offer; what hope is there for the suffering?
After attempting my life, I begged doctors for euthanasia, but they obviously denied it to me. Why? Why did they deny this to me? Sitting where I am, doing what I'm doing, locked in this hell of meaninglessness, why would they not grant me peace?
I'm not challenging atheism, I want to know if I'm missing something. Why can't I tap out? Why is society against me saying that I'm done and I've had enough, and yet looks down on me for what I've become? You can't leave, but what you are is terrible.
Why can't I die if there is no meaning and no hope?
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RE: Atheism and Hope
November 13, 2015 at 12:53 am
There exists whatever meaning and hope you can find for yourself. Perhaps you should keep looking.
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RE: Atheism and Hope
November 13, 2015 at 12:59 am
I ascribe meaning and hope to my loved ones and the things in life I cherish. I don't believe it is a binary system.
I take a little pleasure in life from a good TV show, a lot of pleasure (and pain...) from the Pittsburgh Steelers, some pleasure from a good book or podcast.
Take stock of all the things you do have.
Be realistic about what would make your life have meaning. If you can get it, don't waste another second.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: Atheism and Hope
November 13, 2015 at 1:10 am
You have purpose and meaning by your very value. What is your value? That is unseen and cannot be touched physically.
Everyone believes they have value, some people just don't realize they get their objective value from God, and that there is one who knows what their objective value is, even if they belittle it or overestimate it.
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RE: Atheism and Hope
November 13, 2015 at 1:23 am
(November 13, 2015 at 12:49 am)prmptuscerus Wrote: I am not a Christian, I am an agnostic.
The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Quote:I believe in the evolutionary process. I believe that the process of natural selection allows for those organisms which are not fit to survive to slowly die out to allow room for organisms with more evolutionarily advantageous traits. If this process is a reality it applies to humans and thus to myself. Neil Tyson once said that no being dies in vain; even ...if weak beings die they do so to ensure that weak traits are not passed down to the next generation. If I am weak, why should I live? If I have evolutionarily disadvantageous traits, why should I continue to survive?
What you're describing isn't what the ToE or natural selection imply...
Quote:How would it not be my duty to my species to die and not have children; thus not passing on my degenerate DNA? How is the suffering worthwhile? What is it that is going to be so great which will make my life worth living?
This is something you have to answer for yourself. Why is your life worth living? Are you capable of bringing into existence beings who will pass on the "good" traits instead of the "bad" traits? It's a quandary, for sure, and there's no current way you could know for sure either way. I've chosen not to pass on my DNA, but that's just me.
Quote:I have watched some videos on Youtube about atheists and hope. One man says he has hope that less people will be religious (okay...) another says he likes chess and vegetable soup. Another says he likes to spend time with friends. Lets imagine that you aren;t very interested in changing the minds of the world, that you aren't enthralled with chess and vegetable soup and you don't have friends. If Hedonism is all our life has to offer; what hope is there for the suffering?
I'm not sure where you got hedonism from people who shared on YouTube the things they enjoy...
Do you have an insistence that these strangers on YouTube should ascribe to their lives what you would deem more meaning? What if they're content the way they are?
Quote:After attempting my life, I begged doctors for euthanasia, but they obviously denied it to me. Why? Why did they deny this to me? Sitting where I am, doing what I'm doing, locked in this hell of meaninglessness, why would they not grant me peace?
I've asked the same thing a few times. I think it's because we, as humans at least, have a survival instinct; we also have a weird instinct not to trust the feelings of those who disagree with us. Combine the two, and it's hard to find someone who will assist in your suicide. Hell, I'm suicidal more of the time than I'd like to talk about, and I wouldn't assist in yours.
Quote:I'm not challenging atheism, I want to know if I'm missing something. Why can't I tap out? Why is society against me saying that I'm done and I've had enough, and yet looks down on me for what I've become? You can't leave, but what you are is terrible.
Again, I'm not sure what this has to do with atheism...
You can tap out; you'll just probably have to do it on your own. My suggestion is to cut the people, or "society", as you see it, who look down on you at all. Who's telling you you're terrible? What makes you such an awful person? Why not try fighting against it and becoming whatever you might want to be?
Quote:Why can't I die if there is no meaning and no hope?
You can. Obviously you've found some meaning and hope because you're still here. Build on that instead of blaming "society" for not assisting your suicide.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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RE: Atheism and Hope
November 13, 2015 at 1:32 am
I have to be the devil's advocate here.
For some people, there is no hope. I cannot lie. Take Robin Williams for example, a seemingly happy man who entertained billions with his acting. He committed suicide.
Sometimes, suicide is the answer, and I will not skirt around the issue like a fucking pussy.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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RE: Atheism and Hope
November 13, 2015 at 1:35 am
(November 13, 2015 at 1:32 am)Kitan Wrote: I have to be the devil's advocate here.
For some people, there is no hope. I cannot lie. Take Robin Williams for example, a seemingly happy man who entertained billions with his acting. He committed suicide.
Sometimes, suicide is the answer, and I will not skirt around the issue like a fucking pussy.
I don't think I skirted around it, Kit. I'm right there with you.
Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.
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RE: Atheism and Hope
November 13, 2015 at 4:10 am
The fucking blood's on your hands then!
Never depress a depressed person further! Think!
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RE: Atheism and Hope
November 13, 2015 at 4:29 am
(This post was last modified: November 13, 2015 at 4:32 am by robvalue.)
Hello, welcome to the forum 
I'm really sorry you're in such a bad state of mind. I understand totally, I've been battling severe depression for the last 8 years. Wanting to die was a constant theme.
I do agree that people should be able to make their own decisions regarding suicide, but in defence of society, they are by default worried that you are not in your normal state of mind. By letting you act they worry you will rob yourself of a future you may yet want to live. Of course, sometimes the normal state of mind for someone is precisely feeling suicidal, and this is where the good intentions of society can turn into torture.
I hope you're receiving and taking full advantage of any professional help you can get. Please keep writing to us here with all your thoughts, and you're welcome to send me a private message anytime. I know what a horrible and constant battle life is when suicide is foremost in your mind. I can't promise things will change, or give any timeframe, all I can is that things can improve.
Life has whatever meaning you give it. We're just meeting you so advice is hard to give, but if possible, finding ways to help others may be good. I understand this may totally not be practical. But quite often, the feeling from helping someone is unique and can allow you to vacate yourself for a short period as your focus shifts onto them.
As for evolution and such, I don't recommend trying to gain any wisdom about how to live your life from it or to worry about its future. You seem to have some misconceptions about it, which we could probably help clear up for you if you're interested. But really, the experience of each living being in the here and now, and during each moment in the future, is all that matters (in my opinion). That is the basis of the meaning, and I hope you can somehow find it sufficient, however you approach it.
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RE: Atheism and Hope
November 13, 2015 at 4:48 am
You have no 'duty' to evolution, just as you have no duty to entropy. Such fundamental processes don't need our help. If you don't want your DNA passed on, don't reproduce.
If your society looks down on you for being depressed or an agnostic, fuck them! No Human should have to justify their existence.
"I need no warrant for being, and no word of sanction upon my being. I am the warrant and the sanction." From Anthem (1937) by Ayn Rand.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. ~ George Bernard Shaw
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