Difference between rights and claims........

[Brian37]

On the other website, once again, some atheists, like Bill Maher, Sam Harris, and the late Christopher Hitchens, and those who blaspheme religion, as well as myself, get falsely accused of bigotry. 

It is perfectly within reason to be able to separate the issue of human rights, and the credibility of a claim someone might make. We are NOT a separate species. No, I do not give Islam a pass, or Christianity, or Jewish, or Hindu or Buddhism or any current or past claimed religions in all of human history. THAT does not make me an intolerant bigot. It just means I am not afraid of challenging ideas. IDEAS.

What these fuckers in this article are doing is bigotry. This is the same scapegoating Hitler did in selling fear of Jews. No matter what I may think of religion, ANY RELIGION, my common humanity comes first. It is inhuman to deny refuges escape from war and possible death. 

Nobody who values the secular west wants a theocracy built here. But that should not come at the cost of putting your fellow human in the position of death out of fear of the few that are violent fucks.

A bigot is someone that fears your existence. A bigot uses labels to ignore that we are a same species. Merely saying "That is not true" or "Why do humans cling to old myths" by any label, only means you are challenging them to think about why they feel the need for ANY religion.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/11/armed-pr...how-force/

[robvalue]

I agree. This "protest" these clowns are making is all sorts of wrong.

[Brian37]

Well this post stems from a falling out with other atheists on another website. I cant even agree with Ayaan Hirsi Ali who was in Islam, who would disagree with these fuckers, and who also says denying refugees an escape from violence sick.

[robvalue]

I'm sorry to hear you had a falling out

Ironically, by showing up armed and aggressive based on mere rumours, they are emulating the kind of mentality they are apparently standing up against.

It seems like what they were really doing is bullying some Muslims who as far as we know weren't doing anything wrong.

[Brian37]

My empathy stems from being isolated as a kid, my parents as well intended as they were, were both teachers, but also taught that life is a script, boys don't cry, do what you are told. On top of that I had nothing but boy bullies on my street, I didn't have my first friend until high school. I lived in a mental prison.

Some assholes confuse blasphemy with bullying. I could not place my empathy to being a good thing as a kid, because what I was surrounded by was "buck it up, be a man". Without realizing it, skipping the religious overtones of the TV show MASH, I felt connected to their empathy. A bunch of diverse oddballs, who hated war itself, but would treat anyone in their ER, regardless of even being the enemy.

I take the same attitude towards all religions. THE FIRST THING my fellow human is to me, is just that, you are a human to me first. And outside threats of violence, if all things are equal, I may blast your claims, but when you are in need or the human under threat, my attitude is to protect you. Just like it is not a cop or doctor's job to deny you help because they don't like your claims, or even when they don't like you personally.

I just get sick of well intended people protecting others from scrutiny and blasphemy. There is a huge difference between rights, and claims. There is a huge difference between getting offended and being bullied. Bullying is when you cannot respond or leave. It is not bullying if someone pisses you off, and you can respond or leave.

[robvalue]

I'm sorry you had to go through that as a child I hate that kind of attitude that they expected of you.

Very well said. Unless you're actually harassing random people, shouting, getting in their face, not letting walk away, then you're not hurting them. All ideas should be totally open to scrutiny.

If I held a really stupid belief, I'd want to be told about it. Politely, of course.

[Brian37]

I'm sorry you had to go through that as a child I hate that kind of attitude that they expected of you.

Very well said. Unless you're actually harassing random people, shouting, getting in their face, not letting walk away, then you're not hurting them. All ideas should be totally open to scrutiny.

If I held a really stupid belief, I'd want to be told about it. Politely, of course.

Well even if it was not polite, you already said it, if you have the ability to respond, or walk away, even then you are not being bullied.

I am not a fan of either/or......I base my word choice on context of situation. But no matter what, humans really need to get to more of a point of not responding in violence when someone offends them. Civility isn't about never offending or being offended, civility is what you do when someone offends you. If you have the option of leaving it at words when nobody is physically threatening you, or calling for your murder, then that is a better option. 

If we all got to physically harm people because they piss us off, all 7 billion of us could think of excuses to do just that.

[Brian37]

Having said that you can still be bullied as an adult, say at the workplace, or bullied as a kid or teen in school. I think different codes of conduct apply even off the job or out of school. In those cases, what is said off site, on line, can be taken back to the shared space.

It is why I never share my social media with co workers. And even with family in some cases. But outside that, if I don't know you, and I can leave you or block you, that is not bullying on their part, or mine, if we can part company and are not forced to communicate.

So again, it is important to make the distinction between getting offended and getting bullied.

[robvalue]

I agree. If you're offended, that's your "choice". If you're being bullied, someone is actively and persistently trying to upset you.

As for politeness, what I meant was that if someone just launches into a load of abuse with no provocation, I'll have no interest in talking to them about anything. I will just walk away, or if we're online, block them.

[Minimalist]

I see nothing of value is islam..... or any other fucking religion for that matter.

They can all eat shit and die.