The Not-so-elephant In The Room

[Edwardo Piet]

How do you cope with the fact that most people believe in magic, fairy tales, mystical creatures(e.g.God) and so on?

Very easily if they're quite moderate. But the more religious they are the harder it is for me to get closer to them and relate to them.

How do you explain it?

I think people are theists for the same reason people believe in other things irrational like astrology: Emotional reasons.

How do you think this belief in the supernatural affects the world, other than the obvious violence and divisiveness, aversion to science and rationality that it so often spawns? Do you think belief in a deity or in other such fantasies defines a person's mindset beyond these superficial qualities it inspires in some people of faith?

I think that it definitely affects a big part of who some theists are. If they are quite deepseated and impassionated in their faith then it indeed affects pretty much every aspect of their lives and how they think - or fail to think - about the world.

If they are much more moderate I think that it affects them considerably less.

Do you think there will ever come a time when it's not considered normal, or sane for that matter, for a person to hold such beliefs and how and when would you say that could happen, if you do?

That time may come but it is not a mental illness however delusional the beliefs themselves are. I think harmful extreme beliefs I am glad to see wiped out but anyone who wants a harmless personal belief I would not impose anything on. But I would expect the same from them.

Of course, ideally I think an absolutely atheistic world would be best. But I don't begrudge anyone of any harmless personal beliefs that they keep to themselves.

I am anti-theism but I am not anti-theist.

[Whateverist]

Yeah, common Min, I'm sure we can impress this guy if we put our backs into it. [/sarcasm]

Just to be sure. You're dissing him, not me, right?

Well ..

[Excited Penguin]

Just to be sure. You're dissing him, not me, right?

Well ..

You're dissing the well?

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

'The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a Lunatic Asylum.' - Havelock Ellis

I can't see any room to improve on that. When humanity grows up, people who go round talking about their invisible friend who grants their wishes, loves them, and will punish them eternally for slight infractions of the rules will be put under care. Imagine this:

'Hi, Boru!'

'Hullo, John. Been a while. What's new?'

'Well, since last we talked, I've made an amazing new friend!'

'Glad to hear it. What's your friend like?'

'He's grand! He says that I'm the most special person ever, and he loves me and won't ever leave my side.'

*pause* 'Erm, if he won't ever leave you, why isn't he here now?'

'Oh, he is.'

'Well, that's all right, th-...wait - he's here now?

'Sure.'

'John, umm, I don't see him.'

'Ha ha. You can't see him. You have to be his friend before you can see him.'

'John...can you see him? I mean, right now?'

'Of course. I see him, hear him, feel him.'

*nervously* 'Let's back up a tic. You have a friend who's here right now, but the only way I can see him is to become his friend first?'

'Yes! And not only will you see him, once he's your friend, he'll give you everything you ask for.'

'Umm...'

'It's true! I asked him for an apple tart about a week ago, and this morning, I walked passed a café that was selling apple tarts!'

'Hmm. What else does your new friend do for you?'

'Well, he's told me that I won't ever, ever die, and he's made me realize that my mum and my sisters and my wife aren't as important as I used to think. At least, not nearly as important as he is.'

'John, I have a friend as well. She's called 'Doctor Wilson' and she spends a lot of time talking to people with friends like yours. Would you like to meet her? Your new friend can come along too, of course.'

'He will. He already knows Dr. Wilson. He knows everything, because he's everywhere at the same time.'

'Yerp. Let's go see Dr. Wilson.'

Boru

[Thumpalumpacus]

How do you cope with the fact that most people believe in magic, fairy tales, mystical creatures(e.g.God) and so on?

Unless they stick it in my face, I don't have to cope with it at all. When they do, if it's a personal action, I can smile and blow them off, or I can tell them I'm faithless, or I can tell them to get away from my doorstep.

How do you explain it?

People want answers to all questions, even when answers aren't available; at that point they make them up.

How do you think this belief in the supernatural affects the world, other than the obvious violence and divisiveness, aversion to science and rationality that it so often spawns? Do you think belief in a deity or in other such fantasies defines a person's mindset beyond these superficial qualities it inspires in some people of faith?

I think some people rise to their faith and become better people for it; I think others use it to support their basest emotions. I don't think belief or non-belief defines a person's mindset, because compartmentalization is a fact. Some scientists believe in god(s); some theists accept evolution, for instance.

Do you think there will ever come a time when it's not considered normal, or sane for that matter, for a person to hold such beliefs and how and when would you say that could happen, if you do?

I don't know.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I believe in God, and if anyone has a problem with it they can suck my vajay.

Sign me up!

[Thumpalumpacus]

Pretty much...unless you have evidence that those fairy tales are real which I strongly doubt.

I was implying you were being an idiot yourself because of your unsophisticated response.

Only a fool regards sophistication as a hallmark of intellect. Even a genius knows well enough to say "fuck off" on occasion.

[Excited Penguin]

Evie, your hypocrisy never ceases to impress me. You do realize that Brian just demonstrated my point and yet you disagree with my phrasing, but agree with him at the same time?

There's no question that if believers where one in a thousand we would regard them in a whole different way than we do them now. We would be genuinely concerned for their mental health. And yet that's not the case in our world, because we don't yet live in such a fully rational world that virtually everyone knows how preposterous religious beliefs are. Nor did I say we live in such a world yet. Thus my talking about a hypothetical future in which 'religious' people would be deemed insane, and with good reason. They would be so abnormal in a totally irreligious society that we would seek to understand and help them.

Religion is so intertwined with history up until this point that it's no surprise sane persons believe this stuff. I never said we should think religious people are insane right now. But in a world in which religion doesn't have the status it has now that wouldn't be the case anymore. Surely, you agree with that.

I would recommend that you read my posts more carefully in the future. I dislike being misinterpreted for lack of trying and then having to restate my positions on things for one dummy at a time(or, as it happened before, for whole groups of such dummies). It's getting on my fucking nerves already and you're not even apologizing after the fact. You never are.

You see, the thing is, I get your impression of what I say most of the time and it's so off the mark that I can't help but be genuinely offended. The fact that you and others, when I point out your errors in judgement concerning my posts, tend to double down on your own stupidity and try to make it as if you were right anyway or here's how I wasn't saying what I just said I was saying, doesn't help at all.

[Minimalist]

Pretty much...unless you have evidence that those fairy tales are real which I strongly doubt.

I was implying you were being an idiot yourself because of your unsophisticated response.

I know what you were doing schmuck.  You are quite transparent.

[Excited Penguin]

It's one of the reasons I blocked this guy and now can't help but resist the urge to reply to him out of decency. I fear he is going to write some stupid bullshit about me again and I'll have to get in a lengthy discussion about why he is wrong about which views I actually hold.