Episode VII (spoilers)

[Drich]

I thought you were an atheist.

Enjoyment of fiction unencumbered by too much dissecting of the plot, characters or technicalities is very different than unthinkingly accepting a fiction as truth.

For example, if I think about it too much I might start to not like the movie as much as I did. I might begin to dwell on little things like why that one storm trooper had a weapon than could go up against a light saber but Kylo Ren had to create his light saber from old technology.  Or the "stop taking my hand!" hooey.

When dissecting a story starts to affect my enjoyment of the story, that's when I need to turn my brain off and just go with the flow.  (While still acknowledging that it is fiction.)

I think Kylo's light saber, much like his darth revan helmet and the vader helmet were all relics he collected. He has taken the title "Knight of ren" because he carries one of thier old light sabers/Light claymoore. It looks like a Knights templar blade. He is attempting to project the same fear/power these objects had in the hands of their original owners. Hitler did the same with the SS ruins, the swastika, and all the other symbology and chants placed on the uniforms/his army.

[Drich]

I really don't know how we as people can watch the same movie, and wind up in two different places.

1. BB8. In the original movie the Empire is looking for a droid containing their stolen Death Star plans - they don't know exactly which one - but they slaughter Jawas and search people's homes anyway in an effort to find it. At the start of the second act of the movie, Ben and Luke go to Mos Eisley with the two droids sent on the escape pod. They get questioned by Stormtroopers who ask "how long have you had these droids" - see clearly they don't know exactly what they're looking for. Ben then uses a Jedi mind-trick on them to expedite the process.

Real simple. When R2 and C3 left the escape pod they did not fly. we get to see a scene where the storm troopers find tracks and parts. Tracks be a tri podal unit and a bi-ped. that narrows the field. Then one of them holds up some round parts. If in that galaxy they have anything like an ipad and google then should be able to narrow down what they are looking for to some sort of R2/R4 unit and some sort of service droid. maybe even cross the serial numbers like on the missing milasian 777 wing flap they found and then know everything about at least the base model from the parts they found. Which would explain why they were on to ben kenobi because he had two droids that fit a general description of what they were looking for.

In the remake, one of the resistance fighters tells Kylo Ren the stolen Death Star plans (yeah yeah the map to Luke) are on "a BB unit". He doesn't say which one. Yet every time a stormtrooper, or anyone else halfway across the galaxy as it happens, sees BB8 they immediately know that's the droid that the First Order is looking for! HOW??

The description was for a bb unit, AND A Human female and Black male(iforgot exactly how they were described him) but it would still seem that in the starwars universe their aren't that many black people around.

So to see that specific combination they know to focus and go after that bb unit.

And it's clear in the film that BB8 is a ship mechanic like R2D2 - his job is to repair and perform maintenance on spaceships. Yet instead of leaving BB8 on their spaceship (the Falcon) to get on with his job, they keep taking him with them which just causes problems every time anyone sees him. All could have been avoided had he been left on the ship to get on with performing his function! And there would obviously be lots for him to do on the Falcon since it hadn't flown in years. "NO BB8! BAD BB8. STAY AND WORK ON THE FALCON SO WE CAN TAKE OFF AGAIN WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS."

What makes you think that BB is uploaded with every ship schematics? In the movie the falcon is refered to as a POS, and by then I'm sure very very very outdated. You ever try and diagnose ODB I software with a manufacturer specific reader? Not compatible.

I only remember bb working on the new x-wing

2. Stormtroopers are slaves. Lucas Revealed in Attack of the Clones - Episode II that the stormtroopers are identical both inside and outside the armour, and that they come off an assembly-line and are built by the Star-Wars version of arms dealers who supply ready-made armies. Because of accelerated growth it only takes them 10 years to develop an army from scratch.

No. clones were Clones Strorm troopers are conscribed members of the empire.

In a book I read the reason for the change was that Storm troopers were fiercely loyal to a fault due to genetic programming that is embedded into their DNA. All it takes is a change into that dna programming and whole batches of clones are now being bred to fight the empire. So the Empire scrapped the clone program to good olde fashion drafting people. That is why some are shorter than other and some are taller. In this case black instead of whatever boba fett was. (mandilorean)

The assembly-line production model has never been beaten. The method used by Kaminoans is clearly efficient and cost-effective. Yet instead of getting a cost-effective army of clones, the First Order goes around stealing babies and children from their families so they can instead be raised as slaves!

They other 1/2 was the first order does not have the resources the empire has.
So even if the cloners had it all worked out. drafting people who's planets the first order controls will still be far cheaper than clones.

3. Rey and Finn are able to use a lightsaber with no training.

So was finn.. So can I, turn it on and swing wildly!

4. Rey is able to use a Jedi mind trick with no training, even though Luke had no idea that such a thing would be possible in the original when Ben does it.

Their is much speculation about Rey's force ablities. I like the idea that durning the force mind rape her cousin/ben solo was performing on her, he accidently turned on a two way exchange of ideas and information. This is evidenced by her ablity to read and take information from his mind. If you will remember they said they did not need BB8 anymore because they captured rey (For those who think she was unbeatable) and she had simply seen the map. Giving the idea that his force mind rape was so strong he could recreate a  complex star chart from her memory. Well in this exchange she has full access to his mind, and I'm thinking she took alot of his old skywalker training. (before he turned) Which would include advanced lighsaber and mind trick training.

Also just to throw it out there Luke in ESB on Hoth (Pre yoda training) was able to force grab his light saber out of the snow and cut himself out of the Snow man's cave.

5. Chewy hasn't aged. Where's his grey hair? Chewy's dad (Itchy) was grey all over in the Holiday Special:

maybe he dyes it. or maybe his people just live a super long time.

6. Why did Kylo Ren kill his dad? What possible reason did he have?

Supreme leader Snoke commanded him to do so. He even says to Han "You ever know you had to do something you didn't have the strength to do?" The good in him did not want to kill his father then han grab the lightsaber and struggled for it which gave kylo the reason he needed to lash out at han. The Killing of the father figure/Master is an ever present obstical in the path to the sith. As a Sith Ben could have no outside influences only snoke.

7. Where did this map to Skywalker come from - and why?

Luke so as to find him.

Why would anyone need a map, when all they really need to know is the location itself.

This is a Galaxy wide saga. If I gave you a planetary name in this galaxy would you be able to find it without a map?

The only way a map could be created in the first place is if someone knew of his location, so who was it and why? And why and how did they put the other part of it into R2D2 who has been in "low power mode" ever since Luke abandoned him (why not just wipe his memory and reboot him? He's a mechanic and I'm sure the resistance could have used his proven skills to repair ships in battle).

R2 was to be reactivated when Luke was ready to have 'visitors' I guess when he felt something in the force that would require his attention.. IDK maybe something like Rey and Kilo.

8. Why did Poe abandon his mission? He knew exactly what his BB8 droid looks like, and could easily have tracked it down before it left Jakku with Rey and Finn - yet he doesn't bother to try to complete his mission at all, and instead he leaves Jakku without even attempting to complete his mission.

For all we know he could have been on Jakku up until Han contacted the resistance letting them know what was what. they Poe could have simply come back.

9. How does Rey understand BB8? In the original SW, Luke can't understand R2D2 without either C-3PO translating for him, or seeing a readout. It's not until Dagobah that we see Luke understand R2D2 without a translator or read-out, just after they land. However that doesn't necessarily mean he can understand everything that R2 is trying to communicate to him. Rey has no translator, and no readout, and the droid is worth much more financially to her than the other bits of scrap she scavenges, which clearly implies she wouldn't have the opportunity on Jakku to learn this language used by service droids, yet somehow she knows it??

rey is a scavenger, it would probably have benfited her to speak 'droid.'

10. In Return of the Jedi Luke clearly tells Leia she will be taught the ways of the Force, during one of the best bits of dialogue in the entire original trilogy.

"If I don't make it back you're the only hope for the Alliance."
"Luke don't talk that way. You have a power I don't understand, I could never have."
"You're wrong Leia. You have that power too. In time you'll learn to use it as I have. The force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. And my sister has it. Yes, it's you Leia."
"I know. Somehow I've always known."

In Empire Strikes Back she uses the force to feel Luke's presence in cloud city and turn back for him (when Luke uses the force to call to her for help). Return of the Jedi ends with Luke clearly tasked with rebuilding the Jedi. And what better start than to train Leia who is strong with the force? Yet instead, in JJ's movie Leia has abandoned plans to become a Jedi, and instead becomes a General. WHY???

Maybe she finds out her brother is a bit of a dick when training. Maybe he only knows the short quips and impossible tasks yoda put him though on dagoba, and she being a princess was all like 'uh, no I'm not going to Dagoba' Here see what you can do with my son he like camping out in the swamp... And we know how that went.

In the books leigha was trained and used her powers back in the senate and then later as a general. (Like a last resort) This option is still open. They simply say after Ben fell to the darkside han went back to smuggling and she went back to the rebel army.

Perhaps the worst part is where she sends Kylo Ren's father to go and talk to him, instead of going herself. She is strong with the force - she should be better trained with it, and stronger with it than her son, she should be the one to go down there and ring his neck. But noo - she sends his father who's never used the force in his life! It just makes NO sense whatsoever.

Maybe her going was too much of a strong show of 'force.' Maybe the dad was the one he connected to more, because he couldn't use the force to manipulate him.
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[Drich]

People who complain that there are plot holes in Star Wars movies are like people who can't get into professional wrestling because it's "not real."  They complain that strawberry candy doesn't taste of the strawberries they enjoyed when they were kids 100 years ago, or that nobody appreciates real licorice any more, or that Christmas sucks and isn't Jesus' birthday anyway.  In short, ya'll motherfuckers are just old and sad, and you want to think that only the things you enjoyed when you still had a pulse were worth experiencing.

If you want to know if Star Wars is a great movie, ask my son.  He's 5 years old and he spends about 8 hours a day practicing his lightsaber skills on his selectable red-or-blue lightsaber he got for Christmas, because lightsabers are fucking cool.  When his mom takes his lightsaber away, he terrorizes the dogs with his Stormtrooper doll, because Stormtroopers are cool.  When he rides his bike, he makes "pew pew" shooting noises as he defends the universe, because space fighters are cool.  He gets it.

And you guys do, too, because here we are 12 pages in, and you sooooo want to talk about it. . . doncha?

we didn't have licenses lightsabers growing up, but we did have Blue green and red spray pain and surveyor's stakes (One inch square stake) we use to beat each other bloody with. We knew would could not cut each other's limbs off with these stakes but it did not stop us from trying! Elephant ears and banana trees though were a completely different story. a lot of sith banana trees fell in our neighborhood right after RotJ!

[Drich]

I never care about plot holes. I just think the original trilogy is by far the best. I haven't seen episode 7 but I'm unexcited to because I was unimpressed by the last 3 movies.

Also I always thought that there was planned to be 6 episodes from the beginning, not 7.

Actually Lucas planned only one movie, but once he started writing he quickly realized he had to do 3. By the end of writting the second he has the idea that their's enough for a prequal. so he starts ESB with Episode 5 and RotJ with 6, it wasn't till the video release did they add episode 4. Then lucas claimed the technology was not up to par to tell the prequals. so we had to wait 20 years for him to develop it. so he did and made a technology fill movie. at the end of which he said he would not make another one.

So disney came along and bought lucas films and the rights to star wars for 4 billion.
(after hitting 1 billion in ticketsales with in 10 days of release I bet old lucas is a little sick after that/kinda like the dominoes pizza brother who sold his share of the company for a 73 VW beetle.) So disney is planning to finish this movie out by the end of the decade and has several other spin offs in the works.

Rogue 1 is about how the rebels got the plans for the first death star. it is due out next christmas. It takes place between episode 3 and 4. Vader is reported to be in it as well as some other old characters.
This one is to be shot in more of a gritty Saving private ryan style rather than the typical starwars.

Then next April Episode 8

Next on the books is a han solo movie again between episode 3 and 4. It tell his back story, how he and chewie met, the falcon, lando, the kessle run ect..

Or so say my brother-in law who is an in house camera man for disney.

[Drich]

Episode VII was a return to what made the original trilogy great - the themes, the "feel" of the universe, with a fresh update. You actually feel like you're in the same galaxy far, far away, but time HAS gone by.

Absolutely, Everything 'felt' right! it is all the details that got washed out of the last three that made this movie a billion dollar seller in 10 days! I am a stickler for detail and JJ Really Really went the extra mile in his detail. If i didn't know any better I would have thought they saved the old falcon from ANH and shot TFA there. I hope he can keep filming with the bar set so high to finish out the sequels!

[Drich]

I saw the film again, and really liked it again. It felt shorter the second time, and that's probably because the plot's pretty lean.  But we already knew that.

The more I think about this movie, though - and, apparently, the more I see it - the more I think Kylo Ren is an awesome, awesome character.  Like, he's now my favorite.  I thought he was brilliantly done.

got to remember with this plot as with the originals 3 movies tell one story so we are not getting the big picture yet. It will be hard to completely judge this movie without seeing the other 2.

I think by far ESB is the most incomplete film of the original trilogy, as a stand alone film. yet by far and away when viewed through the lens of the other 2 in the series or the franchise to this point EBS is the fan favorite.

[Drich]

The cinematography was very reminiscent of the original trilogy.

Rather, it copies the form, almost duplicating the set,  without attaining much of the substance.

In Episold 4, Tatooine was a world.    Here Jakku is a cliche.   Are there no other form of harsh desolation, marginal and decrepit existence that Abrams can imagine?

But fine, it's not a huge problem.  We get it.  Ren was abandoned as a young child, effectively orphaned and without even a kindly aunt or uncle to look after her. She had a tougher childhood than anakin, far tougher than Luke's, and perhaps that in some ways made her far more mature than either.  

I will see the next movie to see what the trilogy makes of this.  But my guess is nothing.

Also, fin is liberated from a life time of harsh regimentation, almost made into a killer automaton, but who is now no longer so willing to kill, would he just blend seamlessly into the group as one of the boys by the next movie?  Probably, but I will see to find out.

The force is suppose to be strong with Carrie fisher too.  Is sensing when someone she cares about dies or is in deep trouble the only thing she would do with it?

Look at how the other Jedi deal with death/quigon

Jedi move past death, they do not dwell on it or seek revenge for it.

What is leigha supposed to do? On top of everything else it's her son! I for see a luke vader interaction with Ben that does not go well for Leigha.

I think E.8 will be the rise of the empire like E.5 where Kylo comes to ultimate power and ceases control of the galaxy i think luke and leigha may both fall to Kylo/ Leader snoke leaving it up to girl power to save the day. (With some Force ghost action from Luke and maybe obiwan)

[Aractus]

The description was for a bb unit, AND A Human female and Black male(iforgot exactly how they were described him) but it would still seem that in the starwars universe their aren't that many black people around.

Or Females. In fact there are less Females than there are Black people in space it seems.

What makes you think that BB is uploaded with every ship schematics?

He doesn't need to have the ship's schematic, he can interface directly with the ship's computer.

maybe he dyes it. or maybe his people just live a super long time.

Or maybe they care more about what the doll/action-figure will look like.

The good in him did not want to kill his father then han grab the lightsaber and struggled for it which gave kylo the reason he needed to lash out at han.

He had a struggle? I thought the whole thing was a poorly done act by Kylo to lure his dad to his hand. That shouldn't have fooled anyone, especially someone somewhat savvy like Han.

This is a Galaxy wide saga. If I gave you a planetary name in this galaxy would you be able to find it without a map?

Yes you'd find it a lot easier than an unlabelled map of a galaxy you have to figure out for yourself.

One of the great things about Attack of the Clones is that Obi Wan goes to Planetarium (yeah yeah I know it's really a library but I like to think it's a planetarium) and meets this really snobby stuck-up bitch, just like you might expect to meet at a planetarium, and she's like "oh you don't know where Orion's belt is? you're a freaking idiot then." Condescending bitch.

R2 was to be reactivated when Luke was ready to have 'visitors' I guess when he felt something in the force that would require his attention.. IDK maybe something like Rey and Kilo.

Yes I didn't ask "why did R2 wake up" and I don't care. I asked why didn't the rebellion/resistance fighters/whatever they are just wipe his memory and reboot him? He's one of the best service droids to have on your ship in battle, this has been proven numerous times. Why the fuck put one of your best droids to waste?

[Exian]

I just read a fan theory that I'm afraid is absolutely correct, which means Ep 8 and 9 will be spoiled for me. If its correct it would be awesome though. I'll throw it in a hide tag for anyone interested in possibly ruining the rest of the series.

ETA: DO NOT READ UNLESS YOU'RE COOL WITH BEING PLAGUED WITH THE UNCERTAINTY OF THIS BEING TRUE!!!
but it would be cool to hear some possible holes in this theory. I have found none.

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Kylo Ren was sent to the dark side by Luke, Han, and Leia as a sort of double agent Jedi to destroy Snoke and the last of the Sith. How else would someone trained by those three end up being tempted by the dark side?!

When he says he wants to finish what his grandfather started, he was talking about Ani, not Vader. He was talking about bringing balance to the force.

When he asks Han to help him, he was sincere. Perhaps Han even turned on the lightsaber. This cemented his loyalty to the dark side as far as Snoke is concerned.

This also explains why he had trouble with being tempted by the light side.

There's more to it dealing with Rey, but that's all I remember for now.

ETA: One scene that I thought stood out as weird and nonsensical was Kylo asking Han for help only to turn the saber on to kill him. Why did Han taking the saber allow Kylo to kill him? How was that helping? It didn't make sense. Now I'm thinking this settles it. Han turned it on. That's why Kylo says "Thank you."

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[thesummerqueen]

I literally just had this conversation last night.

Problems with it:

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- Leia specifically talks privately to Han as if Kylo is lost to the Dark Side - not like he's a double agent.

- He wouldn't be wasting time looking for Luke if he were in the midst of Sith training - he had to plead his case to Snoke a couple of times.

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