Should Gender Stereotypes be challenged?

[GrandizerII]

1. Yeah, that's just one example. Is that the only one you can come up with to back up your points empirically?

2. I don't trust anecdotes as much as I do empirical studies. And plus, what may be true of dogs and cats are not always true of human beings. That itself has been empirically supported, time and time again. We are far more complex beings than dogs and cats.

Forgive me for asking, but why exactly is the scientific proof that a relatively higher testosterone in an average male body is the causation for aggressive, competitive and other related characteristics not enough to convince you that it is not because of social conditioning that males are aggressive, competitive etc but because of their inherent nature? Is that a logical fallacy I see?

Because you can't make such a confident conclusion by providing just one example. Not to mention that studies have shown the opposite of what you're mainly arguing.

Here's an article for you to check out:
http://www.apa.org/research/action/difference.aspx

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

Forgive me for asking, but why exactly is the scientific proof that a relatively higher testosterone in an average male body is the causation for aggressive, competitive and other related characteristics not enough to convince you that it is not because of social conditioning that males are aggressive, competitive etc but because of their inherent nature? Is that a logical fallacy I see?

Because you can't make such a confident conclusion by providing just one example. Not to mention that studies have shown the opposite of what you're mainly arguing.

Here's an article for you to check out:
http://www.apa.org/research/action/difference.aspx

And studies have shown that tall men have a higher IQ.
Other studies have shown that the fart of women are relatively more smelly than fart of men on average. So what exactly is your point?

Do you have any source to show that there is no difference between men and women?
Would you like to see me make a confident conclusion though just one example? Here you go:

2+2 = 4.
My conclusion: Two positive numbers added together gives another positive number. Or do you conclude that my conclusion is obviously wrong because I provided only 1 example? *sigh* It doesn't matter the number of evidence that is presented, what matters is credibility. *sigh*

[GrandizerII]

Because you can't make such a confident conclusion by providing just one example. Not to mention that studies have shown the opposite of what you're mainly arguing.

Here's an article for you to check out:
http://www.apa.org/research/action/difference.aspx

And studies have shown that tall men have a higher IQ.
Other studies have shown that the fart of women are relatively more smelly than fart of men on average. So what exactly is your point?

Do you have any source to show that there is no difference between men and women?
Would you like to see me make a confident conclusion though just one example? Here you go:

2+2 = 4.
My conclusion: Two positive numbers added together gives another positive number. Or do you conclude that my conclusion is obviously wrong because I provided only 1 example? *sigh* It doesn't matter the number of evidence that is presented, what matters is credibility. *sigh*

Ok, so you're not that different from creationists or man-made climate change deniers. Ok, makes sense, done with you.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

And studies have shown that tall men have a higher IQ.
Other studies have shown that the fart of women are relatively more smelly than fart of men on average. So what exactly is your point?

Do you have any source to show that there is no difference between men and women?
Would you like to see me make a confident conclusion though just one example? Here you go:

2+2 = 4.
My conclusion: Two positive numbers added together gives another positive number. Or do you conclude that my conclusion is obviously wrong because I provided only 1 example? *sigh* It doesn't matter the number of evidence that is presented, what matters is credibility. *sigh*

Ok, so you're not that different from creationists or man-made climate change deniers. Ok, makes sense, done with you.

You don't seem to be able to grasp the concept that a piece of evidence supporting a claim cannot be dismissed because the evidence is single, you can present 10,000 wrong evidence, still wouldn't make something right, but present an undeniable single proof and that's all it takes. Thank god, you've decided to leave me alone. You enjoy the rest of your day lady.

[Ben Davis]

So it seems you're strong for challenging stereotypes.
How exactly would you advice someone to go about this? To challenge these stereotypes, that is.

Mainly I encourage people not to use them. If they're not propagated, they'll die. In a conversation, I'll explain why, in context, a stereotype doesn't hold water and the ramifications of using it; pointing out the flaws & harms then trusting to human empathy/good nature to lead the person to understand the point. I also try to lead by example by not using stereotypes. I don't find it difficult, maybe because I'm a unique-enough individual

[c172]

Have always been attracted to, and dated men who physically are strong, muscular, etc. My fiance is muscular and exhibits strength. This could be because I'm shallow?

I've always been attracted to extremely feminine young women. Ballerinas, for instance. I also do like a girl in high heels. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyn4_rs9...e=youtu.be

https://www.instagram.com/p/BAp73vTOKL_/...y=betsymcb

Yes, I'm probably shallow. 

But whenever I see a girl in high heels, it also makes me cringe. My ankles just don't move that way. Looks uncomfy. Flat mary janes are cool, too.

[ErGingerbreadMandude]

So it seems you're strong for challenging stereotypes.
How exactly would you advice someone to go about this? To challenge these stereotypes, that is.

Mainly I encourage people not to use them. If they're not propagated, they'll die. In a conversation, I'll explain why, in context, a stereotype doesn't hold water and the ramifications of using it; pointing out the flaws & harms then trusting to human empathy/good nature to lead the person to understand the point. I also try to lead by example by not using stereotypes. I don't find it difficult, maybe because I'm a unique-enough individual  

You encourage people to not use them? Suppose if I were a stereotypical male and you encouraged me to not have those characteristics because they are stereotypical - then I wouldn't have an opportunity to explore my personality? You'd be oppressing me as much a stereotype that may dictate my persona.
Do you also encourage women to be less stereotypical to their persona? Correct me if I'm wrong, wouldn't that be encouraging them to be more like men?

[Ben Davis]

Suppose if I were a stereotypical male...

I'll come back to this because it illustrates exactly what I mean...

and you encouraged me to not have those characteristics because they are stereotypical - then I wouldn't have an opportunity to explore my personality?

No, I'm not encouraging you to stop having personal attributes. Don't be silly. I'm encouraging you to stop propagating the idea that 'a man is only a man when he has the following attributes...'. I couldn't give a monkeys about what your attributes are, I only care that you don't impose a crass, generalised view of manliness on others. Basically, you're conflating the persona (stereotype) with the person, much in the same way that religious people sometimes conflate the belief with the believer. That leads me to think that you think there's more than a little truth to stereotypes or you've been indoctrinated to the extent that you think there's nothing which needs to be done about them.

Now back to my first point: what is a stereotypical male? I have difficulty pinning down what you mean by this because there are many different stereotypes in circulation, right now in the UK; different sometimes to the point of mutual exclusion. Those stereotypes differ to those in use around Europe which differ to others elsewhere in the world. I don't know, maybe one of those stereotypes are right; I doubt it but it's possible. What I do know is that they can't all be right and by corollary they can all be wrong. I also know which option I put my money on.

[Homeless Nutter]

[...]2. It can be proved by basic observation that it is not society that dictated how men and women should function through stereotypes. Look at some animals, like say - dogs, no one taught them how boy dogs should behave or how girl dogs should behave - they have no society to impose "stereotypes" on them, yet they project distinctive characteristics that categorize them as a male and female.

Wow - that's some bullsh*t you've churned out here. I guess you've never seen a bunch of dogs. Maybe you should talk about things you have some idea about.  I'm guessing you got your idea of what dogs are like from "Lady And The Tramp"...

Firstly - most dogs (as well as other domesticated animals) DO have "stereotypes" imposed on them, mainly - by humans, among whom they live and who created them, through genetic engineering. Dogs act in all sorts of ways, depending on how their owners breed and train them - that includes their sexual behaviour.

Secondly - most dogs display behaviours associated with either gender - depending on their place in the social hierarchy and other circumstances. Female dogs can and do hump other dogs, or people's legs, or dominate other dogs through physical force. They also hunt and "provide for their family". Male dogs - especially the "beta" ones - often behave in a manner we would call "feminine", by submitting to aggressive alpha males/females (by lying down and refusing to fight) and even allow themselves to be mounted. Same goes for wild canines, like wolfs.

Your whole idea, that gender stereotypes are fine, because we developed them during our evolution is completely non sequitur. You know what else we evolved, during the more primitive times of our species? Xenophobia, tribalism, slavery and racism - so maybe we should just give those KKK guys a  break, because surely - it's not their fault that they want to live in racially monolithic society. That's just how their ancestors used to live for hundreds of thousands of years, back when anyone who didn't look like you was most likely an enemy. So who are we to judge, right? Let them harass black people and latinos and kick them out of their towns, because dogs (as well as most other social  animals) tend to rip outsiders to shreds, don't they?

Or maybe - just maybe - we can control our animalistic instincts, which at this point cause more harm then good?

[Mothonis]

Hi everyone i would just like to give my 2 cents.

I believe its a matter of wether each individual intends to adhere to the stereo types or not.We should be supportive of there choice regardless of wether or not they choose differently then you would.