Posts: 67321
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: The Anonymous Gospel Manuscripts
February 1, 2016 at 9:33 am
(This post was last modified: February 1, 2016 at 9:42 am by The Grand Nudger.)
We can ascertain plenty about the past from the gospels.....so it's pointless to respond this way as though anyone had objected to it. Can we obtain a single historical fact about jesus the man from the gospels...that's the question.
I think not. You just tried to make the sermon on the mount a fact by reference to another chapter in the same fairy tale as cobbled together by a later council........this is why I don't see the gospels as a source of historical facts about the life of any jesus-the-man. This sort of business is the nature of their "historicity". Lets put this in a more familiar way (to us usians anyway, sorry bud). If all we had for George Washington was the story about the cherry tree, I wouldn't begrudge -anyone- from considering him a fictional character in a morality play. If that was all we had left, for GW..than we'd have no historical GW -even if he did exist-.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 5399
Threads: 256
Joined: December 1, 2013
Reputation:
60
RE: The Anonymous Gospel Manuscripts
February 1, 2016 at 10:04 am
I can never tell if Rhythm is serious or if he really believes his comparisons are actually cogent...
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
Posts: 67321
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: The Anonymous Gospel Manuscripts
February 1, 2016 at 10:06 am
(This post was last modified: February 1, 2016 at 10:08 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Yeah, I'm a dummy, rgr, rgr, glad we got past that. You are assuming your conclusion. You point to details regarding the legendary or mythical jesus and say "see- there's the history". Do you understand why this doesn't work or do you need me to insult your intelligence further by explaining it?
Do you understand that the existence of a historical personage and our knowledge of that person are seperate subjects, or do you need me to insult your intelligence further by explaining it?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 5399
Threads: 256
Joined: December 1, 2013
Reputation:
60
RE: The Anonymous Gospel Manuscripts
February 1, 2016 at 10:08 am
(This post was last modified: February 1, 2016 at 10:09 am by Mudhammam.)
Oh, I see, you were being serious.
I suppose if the only anecdote about Jesus we had was his cursing of the fig tree, then I'd have seen what your point was
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
Posts: 67321
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: The Anonymous Gospel Manuscripts
February 1, 2016 at 10:10 am
(This post was last modified: February 1, 2016 at 10:13 am by The Grand Nudger.)
As serious as I can be in a discussion regarding comedy with clowns, yes. Are you?
(that's how it's done   )
-Great, and what other anecdotes about jesus do we have? Are they more or less fictive than the fig tree incident, in your estimation? Care to elaborate? We needn't focus on that personage, ofc (and we already have that thread)...we could ask that of -any- character in the NT.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 4484
Threads: 185
Joined: October 12, 2012
Reputation:
44
RE: The Anonymous Gospel Manuscripts
February 1, 2016 at 10:13 am
(February 1, 2016 at 9:33 am)Rhythm Wrote: I think not. You just tried to make the sermon on the mount a fact by reference to another chapter in the same fairy tale as cobbled together by a later council.......
The epistle of James was written before the Jerusalem council.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
Posts: 5399
Threads: 256
Joined: December 1, 2013
Reputation:
60
RE: The Anonymous Gospel Manuscripts
February 1, 2016 at 10:14 am
(February 1, 2016 at 10:10 am)Rhythm Wrote: As serious as I can be in a discussion regarding comedy with clowns, yes. Are you?
(that's how it's done )
-Great, and what other anecdotes about jesus do we have? Are they more or less fictive than the fig tree incident, in your estimation? Care to elaborate? No, not really. But I might if you care to say what your experience is with ancient texts, since I can only conclude at this point that you don't know how to read them
He who loves God cannot endeavour that God should love him in return - Baruch Spinoza
Posts: 67321
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: The Anonymous Gospel Manuscripts
February 1, 2016 at 10:15 am
(This post was last modified: February 1, 2016 at 10:18 am by The Grand Nudger.)
@Arac -and it's a good thing they decided to include it, or you wouldn't have it to reference now..as though it established some historical point, eh?
You're essentially allowing a religiously driven editorial board from centuries ago determine your history. Good luck with that.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 67321
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
162
RE: The Anonymous Gospel Manuscripts
February 1, 2016 at 10:16 am
(This post was last modified: February 1, 2016 at 10:17 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 1, 2016 at 10:14 am)Nestor Wrote: No, not really. But I might if you care to say what your experience is with ancient texts, since I can only conclude at this point that you don't know how to read them
I'm an amateur who can't read or doesn't read things the right way, glad we got that out of the way. Probably alot easier than elaboration would be. You're doing an excellent job of making the case for historicity......
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 4484
Threads: 185
Joined: October 12, 2012
Reputation:
44
RE: The Anonymous Gospel Manuscripts
February 1, 2016 at 10:37 am
(February 1, 2016 at 10:15 am)Rhythm Wrote: @Arac -and it's a good thing they decided to include it, or you wouldn't have it to reference now..as though it established some historical point, eh?
You're essentially allowing a religiously driven editorial board from centuries ago determine your history. Good luck with that.
It wasn't included by James though since he wrote before it.
For Religion & Health see:[/b][/size] Williams & Sternthal. (2007). Spirituality, religion and health: Evidence and research directions. Med. J. Aust., 186(10), S47-S50. -LINK
The WIN/Gallup End of Year Survey 2013 found the US was perceived to be the greatest threat to world peace by a huge margin, with 24% of respondents fearful of the US followed by: 8% for Pakistan, and 6% for China. This was followed by 5% each for: Afghanistan, Iran, Israel, North Korea. -LINK
"That's disgusting. There were clean athletes out there that have had their whole careers ruined by people like Lance Armstrong who just bended thoughts to fit their circumstances. He didn't look up cheating because he wanted to stop, he wanted to justify what he was doing and to keep that continuing on." - Nicole Cooke
|
