Gay, Catholic and Doing Fine

[dyresand]

The church christian islam catholic etc has now rights in peoples bedrooms or lives religion should be treated
as something you keep at home and not something you wave in peoples faces or force onto others.

[GUBU]

And in this regard, the Catholic Church is your ally and not your enemy. LEARN. THIS.

Up yours, you little piece of shit. The catholic church as an organisation hates gays with the same passion that it used hate moriscoes. The only reason it isn't out burning gay people like it used burn the moriscoes is that it knows if it tried that today it would be fucked out of every civilised country there is.

Instead it is a lot more insidious, trying to demonise gay people on the sly, trying to make them hate themselves and trying to do them in without outright bringing out the torches and pitchforks. And you, as a gay person (if you are not lying about this as you have done with so many other things) are betraying every other single gay person in the world by defending that piece of shit organisation.

[athrock]

Oh, I get it...you don't see all of these things as sins.  Pedophilia is wrong (presumably because it's not YOUR thing) but adultery and divorce are okay because you might need those at some point.

I don't see anything as a sin because I'm not religious, you dolt.

I also don't see divorce or adultery as wrong because they're activities (presumably) being done by adults giving their informed consent.  Child molestation is completely different because it involves harming a minor.

Right. Consequently, you don't understand why these sins could be listed in a single sentence. It was simply easy to spout off a comment against the Catholic Church because you've seen others do it.

Oh, and there are lots of minors who WANT to have sex and do so regularly, so whether that really harms them or not is questionable. 

But that's not the issue, is it?

[Esquilax]

As you know, I've spent a LOT of time responding to your posts. (You're the 25-year-old with the bachelor's degree in philosophy who works full time as a social worker who thinks he can take down William Lane Craig who has TWO PhD's in philosophy and spends all HIS time studying the philosophical arguments for God and other apologetics subjects.)

I remember. You spent the majority of that thread mistaking mockery for rebuttal, just as here you're mistaking dismissal for rebuttal. I have a pretty strong suspicion you don't actually know what a cogent response even is.

However, maybe I'm wrong.

I will watch your posts for some evidence that you know Jesus and Catholicism well (or at all).

Again, you're not making your case. You're not making any case. When somebody makes an argument and you flit down from your pedestal to just say "you don't know my religion," before flitting away again, you aren't saying anything substantive at all. It's little more than just braying "nuh-uh!"

If I'm wrong about something then I'm wrong, and I'm happy to have a discussion about why that might be and why an opposing view to mine might be right, and how we can tell the difference, but that conversation would actually need to happen. I can't be corrected if the most effort you're willing to expend is just fiat dismissal based in a vague and unsubstantiated denial of my points. You aren't arguing effectively. I can't even fathom what you think you're accomplishing with this, but you aren't actually quelling any of the contentions that I have.

You could do that with reason and evidence, but as it stands, what I've said remains unchallenged.

[athrock]

We can be attracted to lots of things that are not good for us.

Some of them are more serious than others.

And why do you presume that I am not thinking for myself?

You didn't actually answer my question.  Try it again.

The lesbian says to herself, "I want to do this with another woman, and I don't care what anybody else thinks."

It's that love of self that prevents her from loving God and seeking Him above all other pleasures. (You and I have love of self issues that manifest in other ways.)

When she dies, God will not force her to spend eternity in His presence. Unfortunately, outside is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

But some prefer it.

[athrock]

I don't see anything as a sin because I'm not religious, you dolt.

I also don't see divorce or adultery as wrong because they're activities (presumably) being done by adults giving their informed consent.  Child molestation is completely different because it involves harming a minor.

Sad that you have to explain the difference between pedophilia and divorce to (who I presume) is an adult, isn't it?  Athrock, ask us again why we don't believe you are thinking for yourself.

There's no need to ask.

You don't believe it because you cannot accept that someone could be thinking for themselves and agreeing with things that you find objectionable.

Kinda like the person who said, "I can't believe that Republican won the election. Everyone I know is a Democrat!"

Selection bias is at work in your personal associations.

[athrock]

Oh, I get it...you don't see all of these things as sins.  Pedophilia is wrong (presumably because it's not YOUR thing) but adultery and divorce are okay because you might need those at some point.

NO MORON, the reason you don't molest kids is because their brains and bodies are not mature enough to have an adult's ability to consent. You are so desperate to paint us as monsters because we don't buy your comic book you cant understand the difference between fantasy and reality.

Demonizing us wont work. We know why humans can be cruel and we know why humans can be compassionate, and neither need to be explained with an old book. There are very evolutionary reasons you don't harm others and there is no need to explain that with a book of myth.

We are not evil just because we dont buy your sky wizard or book of myth.

I never said you are evil.

[Esquilax]

The Church might as well be calling him Quasimodo, and making him live in the bell tower, but instead of being infuriated and indignant, the OP is grateful to this church for accepting him despite his "damaged" condition, and happy to forfeit his natural born right as a human to personal happiness of the fullest extent possible.  

This was somebody's self-worth, slowly and purposefully chipped away over many years, and he can't even see it.  Blind is right.  

Thank you very much for the kind words, but I'd like to focus on this passage in particular, because it made me realize something: is there a single other sin within christian doctrine that gets the kind of attention that homosexuality does?

So, we have a gay catholic living a life of celibacy, which is what the church suggests for gay people... and doesn't that right away strike you as strange? Isn't the christian position that everyone is fundamentally and unavoidably sinful, and that the only way to heaven is to accept Jesus as a sacrifice in recompense to those sins, that you do have and cannot avoid otherwise? Doesn't Catholicism specifically provide confessionals for the purpose of confessing and redressing sins somewhat?

So if the tenets of the church overall are that people will sin, there's nothing that can be done about that, and that the crucifixion is sufficient to erase those sins before god, and if the Catholic church specifically provides a method for dealing with those sins actively committed during the week, which is an implicit acknowledgement that their congregants are sinning, and if all sins are equal before god... why is it that homosexuality gets singled out for special attention, with this demand for celibacy? Couldn't a gay person with an active sex life accept Jesus, go to confession, and be on equal ground in terms of sins as every other christian?

Why do gays need to make extra special preparations to avoid sin, when it's treated as inevitable in every other case?

[dyresand]

Athrock.. why do you even bother defending the catholic church.. just why
the catholic church has done some of the atrocious things known to date...
The previous popes were just sleaze bags i really don't know why
people still praise the catholic church and the vatican anymore.. i really don't.
Let's look at facts there is still pedophiles in the church Francis said he was
going to do something but he didn't do a damn thing do you really want to defend
the catholic church... i can say something even more that makes them look worse.

[Divinity]

I'm starting to think that athrock isn't even worth responding to. He's not looking for discussion. He's looking to look down his nose at everyone and say how sinful everyone is and spread his message of hate. He's just another fucking asshole who gets his orgasms from the idea that people who disagree with him will burn in hell. A torture fetishist who lacks manners and common sense as well as common decency.