U.S. Presidents & The Natural-born-citizen Clause

[The Grand Nudger]

@Min, "Karl" was born here, not abroad.  Believe the rightwingers call that an anchor baby.  Anchor babies are a go for POTUS iirc. If they lose their shit over Obama and Cruz imagine that.

@Tibs, I think that we're much better at investigating a candidate than we usd to be, sure.  I'm still not sure what harm the law is causing, though.  Do you have aspirations?   I can write you in on a ballot.  

@Jenny, it's not about who a "better" citizen would be (nor is the office awarded to the best citizen).  Cruz and Obama are in, The Terminator is out, I agree, lol.

[Tiberius]

@Tibs, I think that we're much better at investigating a candidate than we usd to be, sure.  I'm still not sure what harm the law is causing, though.  Do you have aspirations?    

I don't have aspirations for the Presidency, though I might run for some kind of office one day. I think it causes some small degree of harm to the overall picture of America though. You are proudly a country of immigrants, you allow people (like myself) to come live here, and to become a citizen of the country, to pledge allegiance to it. Yet although naturalized citizens have the same rights as natural born citizens, and are treated the same in almost every other aspect of life, being able to run for President or Vice President of the country that they pledged allegiance to is forbidden.

It just seems strange to me, and I guess somewhat unfair, especially when it's not the norm around the world.

[Minimalist]

But see the Zimmer v Acheson decision in Post #26, Tibs.

The issue is "naturalized" v "natural born."  Zimmer fully grants that such a child is "naturalized."

The point is that there is not much case law on the issue and much of what there is addresses the issue of foreign parents giving birth to a child while in the US.

What the conservatards call "anchor babies."

[Tiberius]

That case was from 1950 though. The text on the US government website from today references legislation made in 1978 (and applied retroactively) to all births after 1952. Section 301(g) of the INA states that a child in Ted Cruz's position would acquire US Citizenship from birth.

Case law that predates that legislation is irrelevant.

[Jackalope]

That case was from 1950 though. The text on the US government website from today references legislation made in 1978 (and applied retroactively) to all births after 1952. Section 301(g) of the INA states that a child in Ted Cruz's position would acquire US Citizenship from birth.

Case law that predates that legislation is irrelevant.

He acquires citizenship, yes. The question here, and the one before the court was whether said citizenship was "natural born" or naturalized.

[Minimalist]

Sec. 301 g is in here.

https://www.uscis.gov/iframe/ilink/docVi...B/act.html


You have to scroll down to it.


But no one, not me nor Zimmer v Acheson is saying that Cruz is not a citizen.  The question remains "natural born" or "naturalized" and, as noted here:

http://www.constitution.org/abus/pres_elig.htm

The closest the U.S. Supreme Court has come to addressing eligibility to be president was in Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325 (1939):

There is no law of the United States under which his father or any other person can deprive him of his birthright. He can return to America at the age of twenty-one, and in due time, if the people elect, he can become President of the United States... [citing to Steinkauler's Case, which was an opinion given by Edwards Pierrepont, who was Attorney General for Ulysses S. Grant].

BTW, these guys are real hard-asses.  They would have declared McCain ineligible because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone.

Most of the confusion over the eligibility of John McCain seems to stem from the mistaken notion that "citizen at birth" has the same meaning as "natural born citizen". The meaning is not the same. A naturalization statute can make a person a citizen at birth, but that does not make him "natural born".

TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401
§ 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;

These first two correspond to "natural born". The rest are all "naturalized by statute".

Forgetting Trump or some birther with a blog, there are reputable legal scholars who have doubts on that point.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/...-president

Harvard scholar: Ted Cruz's citizenship, eligibility for president ‘unsettled’

[Cato]

The name that popped into my mind while reading the OP was Kissinger.

I'm far less concerned about place of birth, and would have no problem with the recommended 20 year idea, than I am with idiots being given a vote simply because they're 18.

[Thumpalumpacus]

[...] people who have gained U.S. citizenship via means other than birth should have held that citizenship for a number of years (e.g. 20) and also been a U.S. resident for the same period of time.

Sums up my view concisely.

[vorlon13]

I've posted often wondering if various christer notables could pass a polygraphed test of religious fealty, I'm thinking a similar test for Ted on 'Americanism' might yield some interesting results.

Maybe there are other countries he would have a higher coefficient of aptitude regarding governance, and may wish to emigrate to . . .

[Thumpalumpacus]

I personally am not going to vote because I'm not America, but just to tell a curious fact - In Portugal, the president has to be 35 years old and a citizen of origin. It's pretty much accepted as a good principle. A Portuguese of origin is simply someone with Portuguese lineage. A grandparent or something like that is enough. In theory, someone who acquired citizenship without previous ancestry is never allowed to be president. Of course, there's other requirements as well, so it's not like you discover Portuguese ancestry and can suddenly become president.

God damn it.

Oh well, there's always Plan C.