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RE: My views on objective morality
February 27, 2016 at 3:33 am
(This post was last modified: February 27, 2016 at 3:34 am by bennyboy.)
CL, I have to say this. I think you are a good person clinging to a bad idea. There's no utility in it. Prayers aren't going to do anything, there's no reason other than fairy tales to believe in heaven or hell. You could be the same wonderful you without needing to frame your whole universe around an imaginary being.
As for morality-- look at animals. They show love, they care for their young. They aren't generally dicks for no reason, simply because there's no point to it. Then you look at people-- not only do they show love and generally avoid unnecessary conflict, they are capable of forming ideas. They have the capacity to imagine a better world, and to formulate actions to bring it into being.
But the Sky Daddy idea has seen its day. It is connected to too much ambiguity, has too many vestigial connections to brutal views on the world, and is too totally unsupported to be worth the brain power you are dedicating to twisting a goofy religion into a modern (i.e. better) understanding of the world.
Letting go will free up a lot of mental energy and free time. Just think what wonderful things you could achieve if you weren't saddled with carrying your forebears' culture forward into obsolescence.
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RE: My views on objective morality
February 27, 2016 at 3:36 am
Here's the deal, CL.
You claim that prayer works for you. Very well, I doubt it.
I sold my soul to the devil. I actually did. I made a pact and everything. However, I am not a famous, published writer. Therefore, the devil does not exist. And neither does god.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
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RE: My views on objective morality
February 27, 2016 at 3:58 am
(This post was last modified: February 27, 2016 at 3:59 am by robvalue.)
Well, if prayer actually does anything beyond making you feel good because you think you talked to God, then that is an admission that god's plan was suboptimal and that he needed advice in order to see this and fix it.
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RE: My views on objective morality
February 27, 2016 at 4:00 am
It's not that prayer does anything.
It's that theists confuse coincidence with godly intervention.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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RE: My views on objective morality
February 27, 2016 at 4:39 am
No theist has ever been able to explain the purpose of prayer to me.
Are you changing God's will with prayer? That begs the question...
Are you bringing God's attention to a matter with prayer? That begs the question...
Are you making your desires known to God? That begs the question...
Are you prostrating yourself before God in hopes that doing so will have some effect? That begs the question...
Are you hoping to alter some predestined event with prayer? That begs the question...
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: My views on objective morality
February 27, 2016 at 5:35 am
(This post was last modified: February 27, 2016 at 5:37 am by robvalue.)
"I pray that little Johnny comes home safely."
If you're not asking for any action to be taken, you're just saying you hope he comes home safely. Why you're telling God that, I don't know. Also, if god's plan is that Johnny does not come home safely, you're hoping for something God thinks is a bad idea.
If you're expecting some sort of change, then you're asking god to change his plan in the case that Johnny wasn't coming home safely already. This implies you know better than God what is overall the best thing to do.
Any way you slice it, it's completely stupid. It would only make sense if in fact God doesn't have a perfect plan, doesn't know everything and really does need our help to be effective.
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RE: My views on objective morality
February 27, 2016 at 5:48 am
Exactly. The worst part is that they tacitly acknowledge that prayer has a net zero effect on anything. If their prayers go unanswered, "It was God's Plan." If they are "answered," then the power of prayer. If you don't think you can change God's will, then what the hell are you doing? Effectively God's plan is whatever the fuck just happened, whether you prayed or not.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: My views on objective morality
February 27, 2016 at 5:57 am
(This post was last modified: February 27, 2016 at 8:31 am by robvalue.)
I am so glad I don't have to live with such cognitive dissidence dissonance. How can they carry two completely contradictory models of reality around at once? Sadly, neither of them are accurate.
I've noticed this is a recurring theme, actually. Theists sometimes hold two contradictory beliefs about the same thing, so that they can use whichever one they need to explain whatever may happen. They really don't seem to be aware of it, even if you point it out.
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RE: My views on objective morality
February 27, 2016 at 6:00 am
Seriously, my utter intolerance for cognitive dissonance was the reason I never became a theist, even in my uber religious house as a kid. The first and most basic thing: how can free will and God's plan coexist?
The answer that was supposed to be convincing: "We are not meant to understand God's logic." That made it easy.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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RE: My views on objective morality
February 27, 2016 at 6:02 am
How hard to you have to pray to make water run uphill? Hard enough to make water run uphill, of course. Good luck with that.
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
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