Posts: 66528
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: My views on objective morality
March 2, 2016 at 7:03 pm
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2016 at 7:07 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You're investing those "sins" with what they do not contain or refer to, and providing them with irrelevant justification for existence. They have nothing to do with subverting our will, either theologically or in actuality...they're about pleasing god/church and escaping the flames. Our will itself, is fallen in that context, and we cannot help but to feed that fallen nature..subversion is a non-issue. Following our un-subverted will is precisely why we are damned from the cradle.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 9147
Threads: 83
Joined: May 22, 2013
Reputation:
46
RE: My views on objective morality
March 2, 2016 at 7:23 pm
(March 2, 2016 at 7:03 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You're investing those "sins" with what they do not contain or refer to, and providing them with irrelevant justification for existence. They have nothing to do with subverting our will, either theologically or in actuality...they're about pleasing god/church and escaping the flames. Our will itself, is fallen in that context, and we cannot help but to feed that fallen nature..subversion is a non-issue. Following our un-subverted will is precisely why we are damned from the cradle.
Take gluttony. People who are 400lbs know they are overweight. Are they likely to stop overeating? No. So they are aware of a better way to behave, but are in a position in which they will not engage in that better behavior.
Posts: 66528
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: My views on objective morality
March 2, 2016 at 7:24 pm
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2016 at 7:29 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
You're not accepting the framework on it's own territory. We're fallen, our will isn't subverted by these things, our will is to -do- these things. Subverting our will would be an improvement. Gods law seeks to subvert our fallen natures. I think that your attempt at syncretism is admirable, but ultimately, it's incompatible...you must ignore what you refer to in order to make such statements.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 20476
Threads: 447
Joined: June 16, 2014
Reputation:
111
RE: My views on objective morality
March 2, 2016 at 7:26 pm
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2016 at 7:26 pm by ignoramus.)
(March 2, 2016 at 6:47 am)Mr.wizard Wrote: My problem with the idea of an objective morality being "out there", is how would we know if we found it? What exactly are we looking for?
Probably some granite plaques floating in space with our correct commandments.
Wed know they are correct because on the back it will say that that the commandments are true because it says so right there on the back! Hehe
That's how ridiculous I find this whole objective morality thing.
Even if God does exist, so fucking what!
He made us and he must know we're going to ignore him and mould our own morality anyway, because he knows everything, right?
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
Posts: 9147
Threads: 83
Joined: May 22, 2013
Reputation:
46
RE: My views on objective morality
March 2, 2016 at 7:28 pm
(March 2, 2016 at 7:24 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You're not accepting the framework on it's own territory. We're fallen, our will isn't subverted by these things, our will is to -do- these things. Subverting our will would be an improvement.
Your view of will and mine are different. If I'm overweight, I will want to become healthy again. However, the instinct to eat plays funny games with the brain, and I will likely engage in behaviors counter to my desires.
Posts: 66528
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: My views on objective morality
March 2, 2016 at 7:34 pm
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2016 at 7:36 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Your starting point was not my view of will or yours...but the judeo-christian view. You're trying to "fix it" by talking the judeo-christianity out of it. May as well just leave the judeo-christianity out of it to begin with.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 44712
Threads: 532
Joined: July 24, 2013
Reputation:
109
RE: My views on objective morality
March 2, 2016 at 7:50 pm
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2016 at 7:50 pm by BrianSoddingBoru4.)
' "Sin" lies only in hurting other people unnecessarily. (hurting yourself isn't sinful, just stupid.' - Robert Heinlein
Boru
‘I can’t be having with this.’ - Esmeralda Weatherwax
Posts: 66528
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation:
160
RE: My views on objective morality
March 2, 2016 at 7:54 pm
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2016 at 7:54 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Sin has nothing to do with hurting other people, necessary or not.
(great quote though)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Posts: 1314
Threads: 14
Joined: December 1, 2015
Reputation:
9
RE: My views on objective morality
March 2, 2016 at 7:58 pm
(This post was last modified: March 2, 2016 at 8:01 pm by God of Mr. Hanky.)
(March 2, 2016 at 7:28 pm)bennyboy Wrote: (March 2, 2016 at 7:24 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You're not accepting the framework on it's own territory. We're fallen, our will isn't subverted by these things, our will is to -do- these things. Subverting our will would be an improvement.
Your view of will and mine are different. If I'm overweight, I will want to become healthy again. However, the instinct to eat plays funny games with the brain, and I will likely engage in behaviors counter to my desires.
Therefore, you should (choose one):
- Pray
- Consult with a professional
Either way, I see no evidence for any truly objective moral code. Morality isn't really synonymous with the survival imperative, and I believe the concerns of humanity should be limited to facilitating survival for as many as possible - therefore, I really don't like that word "morality", and I don't feel that it is appropriately used in any secular discussion. The Xtian moral code is not an objective one for humanity, not when smarter people see nothing wrong with sabbath-breaking, the mixing of fabrics, the consumption of pork, "fornication" and masturbation under safe conditions.
Mr. Hanky loves you!
Posts: 9147
Threads: 83
Joined: May 22, 2013
Reputation:
46
RE: My views on objective morality
March 2, 2016 at 8:32 pm
(March 2, 2016 at 7:24 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You're not accepting the framework on it's own territory. We're fallen, our will isn't subverted by these things, our will is to -do- these things. Subverting our will would be an improvement. Gods law seeks to subvert our fallen natures. I think that your attempt at syncretism is admirable, but ultimately, it's incompatible...you must ignore what you refer to in order to make such statements.
Why do I need to accept it on it's own territory? I'm not catholic, and I'm not much interested in the God idea.
|
