My views on objective morality

[God of Mr. Hanky]

Your parents are doing this because they ultimately see it as being in your best interest, and they, being your parents, have both the liberty and the duty to decide for you in those cases.  Not so with God.  I am not God's child and his interests are not my own.

According to Christian doctrine, you are God's child and he is very much concerned about your interests. That's why the analogy works.

If you believe one doctrine, then this other doctrine works. If you believe in this other doctrine, then you may believe it when they tell you that relics of Jesus and the saints have healing powers. If you'd like to buy some toenail clippings from Christ, just pm me /s.

[Jello]

Because doing inappropriate things to children is in our best interest, right?

Christianity pls.

[robvalue]

The thing is, if I start using the same logical fallacies regarding any other subject than religion, theists suddenly get really good at spotting them.

For example: Is it possible you owe me money? Isn't there a chance it happened and you forgot? Can you prove you don't owe me 5 grand? No. So you do owe me 5 grand. I'll await your cheque.

The road you take to get to my house is after the one before it.

[Mr.wizard]

To be fair, no one can tell me what practical difference it makes.

It seems like a lot of waffle over nothing.

It makes no difference, I bet if you asked Mystic for a list of what is objectively moral and immoral it would coincide "amazingly" with his subject opinion of what is moral and immoral.

[robvalue]

Yes, exactly. Every theist (who believes in this) will tell me what "objective morality" is, and they'll tell me something different. Maybe not totally different, but slightly. So who do I listen to? None of them are making any arguments as to why I should care about what they have to say, except just believing they are right.

How hard can it be to give me one example of this objective morality in action that isn't incredibly obvious? And isn't completely stupid?

[Mr.wizard]

Yes, exactly. Every theist (who believes in this) will tell me what "objective morality" is, and they'll tell me something different. Maybe not totally different, but slightly. So who do I listen to? None of them are making any arguments as to why I should care about what they have to say, except just believing they are right.

It's nothing more than people projecting their own subjective morals and ethics on to an imaginary god in order to make themselves feel superior or for justification.

This is why I kept asking the question "How would you recognize a an objective moral?".

[God of Mr. Hanky]

Okay, let's say an Italian mobster kills dozens of people.  They do not have the chance to confess-- and if they were hard of heart at the time of their deaths, they will be separated from goodness and love, and will be in Hell, whether that's a place or a spiritual state or whatever.  Then the mobster, after sending dozens to hell, confesses on death's bed, with his heart full of goodness and love.  He's going to Heaven, right?

See, this is the thing-- Christians keep talking about free will, but not about victims whose free will is superceded by that of their attackers.  They lose their chance for salvation, and this in itself should be enough to condemn their attackers-- no matter how many indulgences they can afford to pay for, or how sincerely they beg for forgiveness at their lives' end.

One more thing-- WHY can't you see that the constantly evolving positions of the Catholic church demonstrate that the institution is based on made-up fairy tales?

You can feel remorse without getting the chance to go to confession. And you can go to confession without actually feeling remorse. It's what's in the person's heart that matters.  

As for your last question, that actually doesn't bother me. Over time, we come to learn more and understand more, through what we believe to be the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

So then the whole confessional and penance business is just a game to keep the priests busy? Do Catholics pay (make special donations to) the priests who hear their confessions?

Slick!

[robvalue]

Yes, exactly. Every theist (who believes in this) will tell me what "objective morality" is, and they'll tell me something different. Maybe not totally different, but slightly. So who do I listen to? None of them are making any arguments as to why I should care about what they have to say, except just believing they are right.

It's nothing more than people projecting their own subjective morals and ethics on to an imaginary god in order to make themselves feel superior or for justification.

This is why I kept asking the question "How would you recognize a an objective moral?".

Right. All I get is "people agree murder is wrong, don't they?"

So it amounts to an observation of trends, nothing more. And of course, not everyone agrees anyway. But we exclude people who don't for some reason.

[Catholic_Lady]

Really, really. Have never heard of that as a Christian belief among anyone before you mentioned it in your post.

Well, the reason for my surprise is because Catholics themselves have told me that without baptism you can't be a child of God. So this isn't just restricted to Protestants/Evangelicals.

Never heard of that before in my entire life.

[Catholic_Lady]

The OP is one (smaller) reason why I believe. There are others. The main reason that sealed the deal, if you will, is a supernatural experience I had.

If it's not too much to ask, do tell what that supernatural experience was, please.
(Do it by pm if you prefer)

Outside of family I've only told a handful of people. I didn't even tell my husband until we were dating for over 6 months, and he's a devout Catholic like myself. It's something very sacred to me, and I don't want to go around exposing it to just anyone. Especially here, where it would feel like I'd just be using it to prove something. It just doesn't seem right.