Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
155
RE: My views on objective morality
March 14, 2016 at 1:53 am
(This post was last modified: March 14, 2016 at 2:06 am by robvalue.)
133 pages!? If we can get it to 1337 that would be so...
One of my many problems with all this is that if you just call a particular act immoral before you've heard any of the details, it's a meaningless judgement. And it's still a judgement, of course. Saying it's god's opinion doesn't stop it being a judgement. If I disagree with god's opinion on a personal value judgement, that doesn't make me wrong. It's like saying my favourite colour is red, but gods is blue, so I'm wrong. I'm only wrong if we've both agreed what the criteria are for the judgement, or agreed on an objective way of measuring.
If I say "this rape was immoral" before I've heard the circumstances, all I'm saying is that it "hurt" the person who got raped. In our culture, that's a fair conclusion. But if morality is simply about measuring consequences, it's pointless. We know what the consequences are. No one is argueing about what actually happened. The consequences are objective. But we don't need another way of describing the same thing.
And just because we might not be able to imagine a culture where rape could be anything other than "wrong", it doesn't mean it's impossible.
Posts: 32942
Threads: 1412
Joined: March 15, 2013
Reputation:
152
RE: My views on objective morality
March 14, 2016 at 2:12 am
The problem with threads going on for so many pages has everything to do with retarded theists.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
Posts: 2029
Threads: 39
Joined: October 16, 2013
Reputation:
48
RE: My views on objective morality
March 14, 2016 at 2:39 am
(March 13, 2016 at 5:33 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I can say "rape is evil"... that's objective because it is fact. *emphasis is mine*
Is it though? I'm sure we can both agree that we find it deplorable, as do most people, but that neither makes it a fact or objective. To say such a thing I'd need to know if rape is evil outside of the human experience. Would other races of comparable or higher intelligence find it evil? Is rape evil regardless of sentient species?
Really, those questions are beside the point, because what the hell does "objective morality" even mean? How would we begin to know what that was without our conclusions being tainted by our opinions? Where does it come from? If it's from a god, are the things in opposition to his moral laws evil because he says they are or because of some morality outside even his control?
![[Image: bbb59Ce.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i.imgur.com%2Fbbb59Ce.gif)
(September 17, 2015 at 4:04 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I make change in the coin tendered. If you want courteous treatment, behave courteously. Preaching at me and calling me immoral is not courteous behavior.
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
155
RE: My views on objective morality
March 14, 2016 at 2:40 am
It doesn't mean anything, it's a contradiction in terms.
Posts: 32942
Threads: 1412
Joined: March 15, 2013
Reputation:
152
RE: My views on objective morality
March 14, 2016 at 2:43 am
Too bad so many pages have to go on without that reasoning being available to most.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
Posts: 23027
Threads: 26
Joined: February 2, 2010
Reputation:
106
RE: My views on objective morality
March 14, 2016 at 4:04 am
(March 13, 2016 at 8:57 pm)LadyForCamus Wrote: If I have to choose between acting in accordance with my empathy despite the fact that it may be confounded by other evolved responses, and what some book says "God" tells me I should do (even though there is no official consensus on how said book should be interpreted), I'm gonna go ahead and say my empathy is probably more efficacious. Thanks.
Don't think should be lost in the thread -- it bears repeating.
Posts: 23027
Threads: 26
Joined: February 2, 2010
Reputation:
106
RE: My views on objective morality
March 14, 2016 at 4:06 am
(March 13, 2016 at 9:03 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: [...] without acknowledging other evolutionary responses or justifying why reproductive-advantage is a moral virtue.
You'll need to first explain how evolutionary advantage has a moral dimension at all.
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
155
RE: My views on objective morality
March 14, 2016 at 4:08 am
(This post was last modified: March 14, 2016 at 4:09 am by robvalue.)
Yup. CL has even said as much. She would refuse to do what God wants if it goes too far past her own idea of what is acceptable. So clearly her morality isn't objectively based on God, and even he is held to another standard. Where this standard comes from is unclear, but I think we'd mostly agree it's probably her empathy.
So, to be rather blunt, a lot of people do what God says as long as they were going to do it anyway. In other words, what he says is irrelevant.
Posts: 2029
Threads: 39
Joined: October 16, 2013
Reputation:
48
RE: My views on objective morality
March 14, 2016 at 4:10 am
Robvalue used Takedown!
It's super effective!
No, but seriously, good point mate.
(September 17, 2015 at 4:04 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: I make change in the coin tendered. If you want courteous treatment, behave courteously. Preaching at me and calling me immoral is not courteous behavior.
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
155
RE: My views on objective morality
March 14, 2016 at 4:14 am
(This post was last modified: March 14, 2016 at 4:16 am by robvalue.)
Lol thanks 
I've held for a long time that religion acts mostly as a mirror. People use the parts of their books that they agree with, and they explain away the rest of it and basically ignore it. So what they end up with is their own views, and a lot of crossing out all around it.
They are then astounded that what they see as "the real message" of the book just happens to agree with them. Of course it does, they crossed the rest out.
The scary part comes when they decide to (or are forced to) adhere to a part of the book they wouldn't have otherwise done. This is when religion warps morality.
|
