The Problem with Christians

[TheRocketSurgeon]

Don't feel like dealing with all quotes, there so I'll sum up briefly:

1) The tradition comes from the society at Qumran, where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, and the stories are part of the apocrypha that were found along with it. There was a church legend of the heritage Ol' Elz's lineage, and the apocrypha seem to back up the source of that legend. If the only things you know about how your legends were formed is based on what came out on the other side of the editor's table, then your knowledge will only reflect what someone deliberately wanted you to think. Doesn't that frighten you a little?

2) Most African slaves were not kidnapped by us, but were part of the conquests of Colonial wars, as we backed one group against the other in an attempt to gain control of the resource-rich nations to plunder. They were then sold by their fellow Africans (of other nations/tribes) to the European/American shippers, who then brought them to the auction blocks throughout the Persian Gulf region and the Americas. And you are out of your mind if you think that it is reasonable to conclude "they shall be your possession" or "to be an inheritance to your children" means anything other than personal property... chattel slavery.

3) The slave trade in North America continued long after it was technically banned:

The United States Constitution, adopted in 1787, prevented Congress from completely banning the importation of slaves until 1808, although Congress regulated it in the Slave Trade Act of 1794, and in subsequent Acts in 1800 and 1803. Knowing the trade would end, in the eight years from 1800 until December 31, 1807, the states of Georgia and South Carolina reopened their trade and traders imported about 100,000 enslaved Africans into the country. Numerous states individually passed laws against importing slaves after the Revolution.

By January 1, 1808, when Congress banned further imports, only South Carolina was still importing slaves. Congress allowed continued trade only in slaves who were descendants of those currently in the United States. The domestic slave trade became more profitable than ever with the expansion of cultivation in the Deep South for cotton and sugar crops. In addition, US citizens could participate in the international slave trade and the outfitting of ships for that trade. Slavery in the United States became, more or less, self-sustaining by natural increase among the current slaves and their descendants.

Despite the ban, slave imports continued, if on a smaller scale, with smugglers continuing to bring in slaves past the U.S. Navy's African Slave Trade Patrol to South Carolina, and overland from Texas and Florida, both under Spanish control. Congress increased the punishment associated with importing slaves, classifying it in 1820 as an act of piracy, with smugglers subject to harsh penalties, including death if caught. After that, "it is unlikely that more than 10,000 [slaves] were successfully landed in the United States." But, some smuggling of slaves into the United States continued until just before the start of the Civil War.

(ETA: Citation - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in...ted_States )

And yet, as we all know, the sales of slaves not only continued but was regulated by Southern state laws up until the Civil War, after which Jim Crow laws spent a century doing everything the leaders could sneak past, to try to find new laws to use to maintain slavery-while-technically-prohibited.

It's also one of the reasons any person of color (and/or of reason) should be afraid when people start grumbling too much about the federal government and promoting "state's rights" arguments now popular in conservative circles.

[Cyberman]

I'm not one of those who insists on a literal 6 day creation.

Of course not. That would be silly, wouldn't it?

[AJW333]

And yet we put people to death on the basis of eyewitness testimony. Go figure. Clearly not all eyewitnesses are unreliable.

That would be because the system is flawed and not because of the quality of the testimony. If you could be arsed to look up the research on what Rocket posted, you would have your doubts. But you stick to your supernatural woo and find comfort in people babbling on about having witnessed it.

So what's your opinion on alien abducation? There are people swearing to have experiences it. They make a claim, so it has to be true, isn't it?

Interesting question. I regard such experiences as spiritual phenomena as opposed to actual physical experiences. Here's an interesting article on the subject from a professor of psychiatry at Harvard:

"An esteemed professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, and a Pulitzer Prize-winning biographer, Dr. John Mack never intended to become an expert in the controversial study of alien abductees. But after investigating over 60 cases of alien abduction through hundreds of hours of interviews and treatment, Dr. Mack now presents the mesmerizing tales of alien encounters revealed by his patients-- none of whom are mentally ill-- and the profound, surprising and at times deeply spiritual impact these experiences have has on their lives. Providing details of alien encounters never before reported or depicted on the screen, the men and women whose experiences are related here in unforgettably vivid detail are not extremists recounting dreams or hallucinations. Rather, as Dr. Mack reports, they are survivors of harrowing, real-life experiences that challenge the most basic assumptions that make up our understanding of our existence and our role in the universe." http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/668027.Abduction

[Pat Mustard]

And so does Nostradamus if you bend and shape the letters sufficiently. I've yet to see any supposed prophecy not being open to at least a dozen interpretations.

How about this prophecy, it seems fairly straight forward,

"Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands." Revelation 20:4

To the casual (and dare I say the cynical) observer, this doesn't say much. However let's unpack it a bit. You have an obscure Jewish fisherman 2000 years ago make a prediction that in the last days, just prior to the return of Christ, (modern era) you will have Christians being beheaded for no other reason than being Christian. Until very recently,  this wasn't happening, now it is. ISIS is beheading hundreds, if not thousands of Christians as we speak. Was John correct with his prophecy? Absolutely.

We've had an esteemed member calling himself the professor, who wasted his life away by interpreting the end of days coming last september. Going by bible verses, he bent to suit his particular brand of makebelief.

He should have paid more attention to the verse that says "no one knows the hour nor the day...."

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Says the idiot who thinks a passage in the bible about the c 500 bce formation of the kingdom of Judah actually refers to the 1948 creation of the Racist Theocracy of Israel.

I think you missed something here. The prophecy states that Israel will be regathered a second time. At the time of Isaiah around 700BC, when the prophecy was made, there had not yet been a dispersion of Israel and therefore no regathering.  Isaiah was predicting the dispersion in 586 BC. This was followed by the first regathering 70 years later. So when was the second dispersion? That was under the Roman Empire in Jesus' day and the second regathering was 1948.

Oh and on your "degree" post the certificate or it doesn't exist, because you don't understand scientific concepts you could teach to a toddler.

Put up $10k and I'll be glad to take your money.

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You still haven't specified your "science degree", you lying fuctard asshole!

Administrator Notice
Fixed quote formatting. You're welcome -- Stimbo

If you call me a liar then I will call you on it. That's why there is a wager of $10k on it. Put your money on the table and I'll be more than happy to comply. Till then, enough of the false accusations.

Why should I pay you about 40% of my annual income to do something that'll cost you, roughly, a dollar?

Your answer to my challenge though is interesting enough. From it I can reasonably conclude that you've no degree in any field and are simply bullshitting us with lying credentialism. Nice to have proof that you're just another lying sack of shit whose only "learning" came from the bananaman himself, Ray Comfort.

[AJW333]

This is where I don't agree because to get DNA from a very haphazard, disordered environment, you have to reverse entropy. There is no such thing as a random code, so how are a bunch of random chemicals going to write one?

hahahaha reverse entropy!! GHAHAHAHAHAHAA LOL
no.
The second law of thermodynamics applies to a closed system. The planet Earth is nothing of the sort, except in a few special cases...
Life on Earth depends on the Sun.... very! And most of the Sun's energy is wasted into space.

So, mr scientist, try not to use that as an argument for anything... it's faulty.

Any ideas how sophisticated, self replicating DNA codes wrote themselves from a bunch of random chemicals?

[Cyberman]

Polymerisation.

Your turn.

[AJW333]

Put up $10k and I'll be glad to take your money.

If you do that again, I will report you for online scamming for cash.

I gave you kudos as you made me laugh.   

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Vague prophecies put into a modern context.

ISI has murdered FAR more Muslims than they have Christians, just for being the "wrong" type of Muslim.  Does that prophecy therefore mean that Shia Islam is the correct religion?

Don't get me started on Islam. I'm simply pointing out that it is very unlikely that an obscure Christian figure 2000 years ago would make a specific prophecy that is now coming true before our eyes.

Administrator Notice
Edited to fix incorrect quote attribution -- Stimbo

[pocaracas]

hahahaha reverse entropy!! GHAHAHAHAHAHAA LOL
no.
The second law of thermodynamics applies to a closed system. The planet Earth is nothing of the sort, except in a few special cases...
Life on Earth depends on the Sun.... very! And most of the Sun's energy is wasted into space.

So, mr scientist, try not to use that as an argument for anything... it's faulty.

Any ideas how sophisticated, self replicating DNA codes wrote themselves from a bunch of random chemicals?

Polymerisation.

Your turn.

Need I say any more?
(that's just one idea.... more exist, of course)

[Cyberman]

One idea is really all it takes to puncture the preposterous pomposity of the presumptuous pretence that one's opponents have no ideas.

[AJW333]

"Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands." Revelation 20:4

To the casual (and dare I say the cynical) observer, this doesn't say much. However let's unpack it a bit. You have an obscure Jewish fisherman 2000 years ago make a prediction that in the last days, just prior to the return of Christ, (modern era) you will have Christians being beheaded for no other reason than being Christian. Until very recently,  this wasn't happening, now it is. ISIS is beheading hundreds, if not thousands of Christians as we speak. Was John correct with his prophecy? Absolutely.

Yes, as I said, to the credulous it can mean anything they want it to mean. Do you by any chance remember the old song "bend me, shape me" by The American Breed? It's exactly what you're doing, what everyone's doing when it comes to prophecy.

You're unpacking nothing but your own ignorance here, if you're insisting it has to mean ISIS beheading christians, since the majority of people killed by ISIS are fellow muslims, who, in your christian bigotry, you associate with the mark of the beast.

Yes, bend me, shape me in the worst sense of the word. Quod erat demonstrandum.

Is it ignorant to associate Islam with the mark of the beast? Not if you do your homework. The Islamic system is proudly antichrist. All over the Islamic world, they declare "God has no Son." They will openly tell you that Jesus is not the Christ. According to the Bible in 1 John 2:22 it defines "antichrist" as the one who denies Jesus is the Christ. So Islam is clearly an antichrist system. And who is the beast? He is THE antichrist.