The stupid "Apex" "design" argument.....

[Brian37]

The older I get, the less pop culture like music and TV impresses me. I have grown to value things of substance more, like politics, because it affects the globe and the laws I live under, but also science and nature.

Ok, so I watched a PBS special on penguins in the Antarctic. Now while humans can build shelter, that doesn't make them more adaptable, but merely a different adaptation. I think penguins are far more impressive because they don't build shelter or have cloths or heaters and can survive in sub zero temperatures even 80 degrees below. Even with a jacket and several layers of clothing we cant survive outside all the time. 

Just like there are certain bacteria and crustaceans that can survive in extreme heat like in volcanic hot springs or ocean floor volcano hot water way beyond boiling.

It really is stupid logic to think because we can kill and eat animals and build tall buildings that we can always reproduce more than other life and or survive under all conditions. NO, humans are good at being humans, but we can't do what penguins do or even eagles nor do we reproduce at the same rate as even cockroaches.

We are one species among billions, and we are only one tiny blip in evolution where other life outnumbers us and has been around far longer.

[Chad32]

People rarely enjoy things from a timeframe that's not their own. Parents don't understand their kids. It's normal to dislike things outside of your comfort zone.

Yeah, it really does depend on what the situation is. we can build planes, and fly, but the design for planes was bird wings. We have to study what animals do naturally in order to mimic them.

[Brian37]

People rarely enjoy things from a timeframe that's not their own. Parents don't understand their kids. It's normal to dislike things outside of your comfort zone.

Yeah, it really does depend on what the situation is. we can build planes, and fly, but the design for planes was bird wings. We have to study what animals do naturally in order to mimic them.

Yes, I am not saying the youth of today cant enjoy their own entertainment. I am getting old yes. But I look at my focus as a kid, and had no clue how important education was, and while art and entertainment are fine, kids really should put education first as well as their parents. 

Yes lots of technology is inspired by nature, but that human ability to adapt and mimic nature in technology does not make our adaptations superior, just different. There still are other life that is far better at reproduction and survival under certain conditions. The water bear has survived all 5 mass extinctions. A nuclear war by our own hand could wipe us out, but climate change without that could do that, and while the meteor that killed the dinosaurs didn't kill all life, if something the same size it now, because we don't have a meteor defense system, that most certainly would kill off humans.

[abaris]

Thanks to my parents, I was pretty enamored with dinosaurs decades before this became pop culture. I also liked to collect fossil shells. Since we live on the shores of a long dried out primeval ocean, they can be found under and within certain rocks. My father always pointed them out as being millions of years old.

So, religion and it's creation myth, never had much of a leverage with me. I never even considered mud man and rib woman to be anything but a tale.

[The Grand Nudger]

Let's pull back just a bit.  Nuclear war won't wipe out the human race, nor will a meteor strike that's anything less than global and total.  Climate change can't do it either.  Even assuming that our demise looms over the next horizon...I'm glad I'm not a water bear.  That penguins huddle for warmth is no different than ourselves huddling for warmth...and if penguins could build houses I doubt we'd see them doing much huddling out in the open.  

What is the "apex argument", exactly....what are you objecting to with this? Is it;

It really is stupid logic to think because we can kill and eat animals and build tall buildings that we can always reproduce more than other life and or survive under all conditions.

Who thinks that, for those reasons?

[Minimalist]

My parents thought the Beatles were the end of civilization.  Not because of their music but because of their haircuts.

I think today's music is utter shit but I only listen to it when some asshole four cars away is blasting it (and his ear drums) to hell.

[abaris]

My parents thought the Beatles were the end of civilization.  Not because of their music but because of their haircuts.

My parents danced to it, though I figure, our parents must have been nearly the same generation. I'm a latecomer to the family and my parents were already in their 40ies in the 60ies.

[Brian37]

Let's pull back just a bit.  Nuclear war won't wipe out the human race, nor will a meteor strike that's anything less than global and total.  Climate change can't do it either.  Even assuming that our demise looms over the next horizon...I'm glad I'm not a water bear.  That penguins huddle for warmth is no different than ourselves huddling for warmth...and if penguins could build houses I doubt we'd see them doing much huddling out in the open.  

What is the "apex argument", exactly....what are you objecting to with this?  Is it;

It really is stupid logic to think because we can kill and eat animals and build tall buildings that we can always reproduce more than other life and or survive under all conditions.

Who thinks that, for those reasons?

NO, lets not dial it back. A nuclear ware most certainly could wipe us out. I didn't say it was an absolute, but the the disruption of communication, the mass poisoning of food sources, and the lack of sanitary conditions and infighting would increased. We'd be so focused on murdering even our own neighbor's for food.

And are you kidding me? 5 mass extinctions on this planet, and I don't think all of them were caused by meteors, but certainly one big enough could hit us. To think there are none out there big enough to kill us off is absurd. Now if you are talking short term, that is one thing, but we do know our planet has been hit by very big meteors.

What scientists are saying currently even if we can survive somewhat, even long term, climate change will severely make thing harder on us and at a minimum could lead to global conflict to the point of knocking us back to the stone age.

Who? I didn't accuse anyone who accepts science of being in denial, that last line you quoted me on was aimed at the morons who do deny science and think humans are the center of the planet and universe, not you.

[Brian37]

We almost went extinct in the past, but sooner or later we will, and our planet's core will run out of energy no matter what.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2975862.stm

[The Grand Nudger]

Meh, I think you imagine that we're far more frail than we actually are, and almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.  There's a significant difference between ourselves and every other animal that's ever lived on this planet, and referring to their extinctions as though it made our own inevitable ignores that completely.  We're better than our biology, which is itself more than competent.  Our technology can adapt faster than our frame.  Where all other life that has ever been hits a wall we have only begun to explore our options.  In this, we are unique on earth, though obviously not invincible. It wasn't always thus, our situation was once far more precarious than it is now. That time, however, has passed. We were an apex species even then. Today, we are -the- apex species.

In any case, I'm not sure why you responded the way you did....I was wondering who made the stupid argument you referred to (and what it was, exactly).  You're railing against people who "deny the science", but you're not presenting a very faithful summary of our place on this rock and in relation to other species yourself.  In any extinction event, trust that we'll be among the last life standing...hell, we -are- an extinction event. We're already among the last life standing, and it doesn't exactly look good for the rest of them at present...keeps coming up aces for us though, huh? Probably has something to do with our unique ability to stack the deck.