Ths Islamic State: IS

[The Grand Nudger]

That's an awfully kind revisionist history there Atlas, for the state "mo" and his buddies ran.  Look, you set up the metrics, it's not my fault if they disqualify your boy and his band of raiding bedouin. I'm generally the first to remind people that the umma held the torch when europe went dark......but there's no sense in making them out to be what they weren't. The Confederate States were multicultural too...and frankly, I'd wipe my ass with the "human rights doctrine" of people living in the islamic empire then or now.

-but by all means, if you want to return to that be my guest. Seems to be a common affliction among the faithful. That's what self determination is all about, the right to shittify your own life for the most ignorant of reasons.

[ReptilianPeon]

Muslims -and all humans, actually- are ordered to rule with the Quran :

If somebody comes to my door telling me that, I would even take up arms; I will do whatever it takes to oppose them. That's very arrogant of the Quran. And  I will not live under Quran. Same for any other ancient book. This is not negotiable. I don't know how brave I'd actually be on the battlefield, but I know that I'd want to defend my livelihood and protect others.

If they will kill me, that's fine. It'll be better than living under them on this cursed Earth. I want to be free to live without the specter religion. But by doing foolish oppression they'd be going against the Quran anyway. I doubt my blood will remind them. So I would urge anyone to rise up and fight this so that we may win. Fly the white flag of surrender we will not.

Does Allah order humans to not do the things you listed because they are bad or because it was decided that they were bad? If those things are bad because they are morally bad then that means morality is external to Allah and we don't need Allah to tell us what to do or not do. However, if Allah is deciding which thing are moral and which are not then morality is just Allah's desires.

Allah is a massive hypocrite either way. Try telling all of those innocent and slaughtered Egyptian babies that Moses was the good guy. They go up to meet Allah and Allah is like "sorry I killed you, but I had to kill you else the Pharaoh wouldn't listen to me." What happened to their free will?

I don't have an evidence. I'm taking a leap of faith; I trust my God.

So you don't care about evidence? Why do you accept things without evidence? I could believe in Russell's Teapot without evidence, and you can't disprove it because you don't have evidence to the contrary.

Adam and Even is a very confusing story. Please research genetics and evolution, but not simply because this forum implores you to - do to be more informed about the planet we share. If you decide this whole evolution thing is bogus then I will accept your views, but I wouldn't want you holding wrong opinions on the subject that's for sure. It never hurts to be more informed does it?

After all, you already do pretty good with Quran so I have not doubt you could defend yourself intellectually against any of the people seeking to spread the cultural hegemony of al-Saud. I know I love finding out new things.

The bodies of humans, and indeed those of other animals, are full of design flaws that make Allah look very incompetent. They are not perfectly designed, as many from amoung the Ummah assert. Maybe you will just respond with "life is a test", but others really do believe the human body is perfect when it is clearly not.

Information from human DNA can be used to build an entire retro virus. There is a virus in our DNA! Why would Allah design humans like this? What's with all of the wasted genetic code? Majority of human DNA does absolutely nothing beneficial.

[WinterHold]

Atlass I think you have the idea of the story mixed up.  The story says eating from the tree caused their nakedness to be apparent to them.  Not that the eating of the tree actually caused their private parts to be exposed, they already were exposed, the tree gave them knowledge of it then they used leaves to cover themselves.
Also it really isn't possible, not one part of the story.  I mean, the original story was bullshit enough but with your mixed up version of the bullshit story it's difficult to know where to begin to correct it.

I chose the explanation based on the syntax of a verse, and the context of the scenario.

 Quoting the verse:

(Sura 7 Verse 27 )   O children of Adam, let not Satan tempt you as he removed your parents from Paradise, stripping them of their clothing to show them their private parts. Indeed, he sees you, he and his tribe, from where you do not see them. Indeed, We have made the devils allies to those who do not believe.

One can argue that the stripping mentioned is "spiritual/non-physical", but I believe it was physical, it makes more sense that way.

Rhythm

Ah, no, ancient Muslims weren't Bedouins, actually the "raiding bedouns" were a source of problems in general; they're even mentioned in the Quran -you never saw the verse before-?

( Sura 9 Verse 97 )   The bedouins are stronger in disbelief and hypocrisy and more likely not to know the limits of what [laws] Allah has revealed to His Messenger. And Allah is Knowing and Wise.

( 98 )   And among the bedouins are some who consider what they spend as a loss and await for you turns of misfortune. Upon them will be a misfortune of evil. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.
( 99 )   But among the bedouins are some who believe in Allah and the Last Day and consider what they spend as means of nearness to Allah and of [obtaining] invocations of the Messenger. Unquestionably, it is a means of nearness for them. Allah will admit them to His mercy. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. 

It's a common mistake to fall into the "racist, ignorant narrative" that of Indiana Jones. Anyhow, historical & racial accuracy is a very important thing, but you seem to lack it.

MrNoMorePropaganda

If somebody comes to my door telling me that, I would even take up arms; I will do whatever it takes to oppose them. That's very arrogant of the Quran. And  I will not live under Quran. Same for any other ancient book. This is not negotiable. I don't know how brave I'd actually be on the battlefield, but I know that I'd want to defend my livelihood and protect others.



If they will kill me, that's fine. It'll be better than living under them on this cursed Earth. I want to be free to live without the specter religion. But by doing foolish oppression they'd be going against the Quran anyway. I doubt my blood will remind them. So I would urge anyone to rise up and fight this so that we may win. Fly the white flag of surrender we will not.



Does Allah order humans to not do the things you listed because they are bad or because it was decided that they were bad? If those things are bad because they are morally bad then that means morality is external to Allah and we don't need Allah to tell us what to do or not do. However, if Allah is deciding which thing are moral and which are not then morality is just Allah's desires.


Allah is a massive hypocrite either way. Try telling all of those innocent and slaughtered Egyptian babies that Moses was the good guy. They go up to meet Allah and Allah is like "sorry I killed you, but I had to kill you else the Pharaoh wouldn't listen to me." What happened to their free will?

? Take up arms ?
Why MNMP? it's only an advice; Islam cannot be compulsivly forced after all, I made that clear when I quoted "verse 256. sura 2", but it seems that this story can make us both relate:


( Sura 44 Verse 19 )   And [saying], "Be not haughty with Allah. Indeed, I have come to you with clear authority.

( 20 )   And indeed, I have sought refuge in my Lord and your Lord, lest you stone me.

( 21 )   But if you do not believe me, then leave me alone."
( 22 )   And [finally] he called to his Lord that these were a criminal people.

Just like you, they took arms, and wanted to meet words with steel..that's not just.

Why do you always assume evil?  
History does indeed repeat itself:

(Sura 27 Verse 45 )   And We had certainly sent to Thamud their brother Salih, [saying], "Worship Allah," and at once they were two parties conflicting.

( 46 )   He said, "O my people, why are you impatient for evil instead of good? Why do you not seek forgiveness of Allah that you may receive mercy?"

( 47 )   They said, "We consider you a bad omen, you and those with you." He said, "Your omen is with Allah. Rather, you are a people being tested."

( 48 )   And there were in the city nine family heads causing corruption in the land and not amending [its affairs].
( 49 )   They said, "Take a mutual oath by Allah that we will kill him by night, he and his family. Then we will say to his executor, 'We did not witness the destruction of his family, and indeed, we are truthful.' "

Why do you meet an advice, with a drawn sword?
If you don't like my message, leave me alone. 

Isn't that the same thing, LGBT community people, Zionists, Seculars, atheists and Christians ask for ?
After all, if you don't wanna believe, don't, but keep your guns out of it, just like I left mine out of it too.

So you don't care about evidence? Why do you accept things without evidence? I could believe in  without evidence, and you can't disprove it because you don't have evidence to the contrary.

I do think God is undeniable, so his word gotta be true. It wasn't denied so..innocent until proven wrong follows the a similar concept.

[paulpablo]

Ok, the Islamic version of the story is obviously the opposite to the Christian one then, apparently Adam and Eve had clothes in the Islamic version.

I didn't know this and it is surprising, but then it does say in the verse that they are stripped of their clothing.  If it actually does mean clothing then that would mean it has nothing to do with Adam or Eve losing feathers via genetics.  If genetics causes a creature to grow feathers they aren't wearing the feathers as clothes.

This is crazy for so many other reasons anyway.  It says But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts.  Did they not know they had private parts because their clothes were covering them?  I guess they didn't go to the toilet or have any sexual urges despite having testicles, ovaries, hormones and everything else?  Did Satan whisper to Adam, "You've got a cock and balls, you don't know what you're missing out on, the amount of fun times you can have with those"  Maybe this was before they had gone to the toilet or had sexual urges but after they had just been created, but then I'm sure they would have found out what their bodies have sooner or later anyway.

[WinterHold]

Ok, the Islamic version of the story is obviously the opposite to the Christian one then, apparently Adam and Eve had clothes in the Islamic version.

I didn't know this and it is surprising, but then it does say in the verse that they are stripped of their clothing.  If it actually does mean clothing then that would mean it has nothing to do with Adam or Eve losing feathers via genetics.  If genetics causes a creature to grow feathers they aren't wearing the feathers as clothes.

This is crazy for so many other reasons anyway.  It says But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts.  Did they not know they had private parts because their clothes were covering them?  I guess they didn't go to the toilet or have any sexual urges despite having testicles, ovaries, hormones and everything else?  Did Satan whisper to Adam, "You've got a cock and balls, you don't know what you're missing out on, the amount of fun times you can have with those"  Maybe this was before they had gone to the toilet or had sexual urges but after they had just been created, but then I'm sure they would have found out what their bodies have sooner or later anyway.

I believe they didn't know that their bodies can support achieving sexual functions .
The hormones responsible for the growth of hair are actually the same hormones defining our masculinity and femininity, or may I say: sexuality?

http://health.howstuffworks.com/sexual-h...ionary.htm

It's not that far fetched, that a "chemical" compound in that fruit, caused the twist in human history.

Today, it's proven that cigarettes and tobacco products do change human DNA and alter it, causing mutations to children and such.
 So why wouldn't the tree Satan chose, does the same thing to our ancestors?

[ReptilianPeon]

Er, Atlas, you said "the Quran orders humanity". Giving orders is not the same as giving advice. I still respect you, but I think that you are living in fantasy land if you think that orders=friendly advice. An order is an imposition.

You clearly did not say in your first reply to me in this topic, "the Quran advises humanity". Maybe you didn't mean it to sound assertive like that, but it didn't sound like you meant the Quran is simply giving friendly advice. "The Quran orders humanity" is the sort of things Wahaabi/Salafi and Twelvers would say like when they had those "Sharia Control Zones" in London. They want to order everyone to live by their standards.

I'm sorry for being so defensive, but "the Quran orders" has lead to bad things. It has led to people imposing their beliefs on Kuffar. I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

[WinterHold]

Er, Atlas, you said "the Quran orders humanity". Giving orders is not the same as giving advice. I still respect you, but I think that you are living in fantasy land if you think that orders=friendly advice. An order is an imposition.

You clearly did not say in your first reply to me in this topic, "the Quran advises humanity". Maybe you didn't mean it to sound assertive like that, but it didn't sound like you meant the Quran is simply giving friendly advice. "The Quran orders humanity" is the sort of things Wahaabi/Salafi and Twelvers would say like when they had those "Sharia Control Zones" in London. They want to order everyone to live by their standards.

I'm sorry for being so defensive, but "the Quran orders" has lead to bad things. It has led to people imposing their beliefs on Kuffar. I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

Perhaps it was a wrong choice of words.  
Allah orders, Muslims advice, I thought this concept will be clear from the flow of the topic. 

Humans have no authority, there shall be no compulsion in religion; that verse was for us humans.
But even God himself, doesn't force belief on nobody; he can if he wanted, but he never did or does.


It's an order. Those who defy it will meet the judgement of the God who revealed that message. 
What I can do, is advice and warn.

I don't think that deserves drawing guns.

Anyhow,

[paulpablo]

Ok, the Islamic version of the story is obviously the opposite to the Christian one then, apparently Adam and Eve had clothes in the Islamic version.

I didn't know this and it is surprising, but then it does say in the verse that they are stripped of their clothing.  If it actually does mean clothing then that would mean it has nothing to do with Adam or Eve losing feathers via genetics.  If genetics causes a creature to grow feathers they aren't wearing the feathers as clothes.

This is crazy for so many other reasons anyway.  It says But Satan whispered to them to make apparent to them that which was concealed from them of their private parts.  Did they not know they had private parts because their clothes were covering them?  I guess they didn't go to the toilet or have any sexual urges despite having testicles, ovaries, hormones and everything else?  Did Satan whisper to Adam, "You've got a cock and balls, you don't know what you're missing out on, the amount of fun times you can have with those"  Maybe this was before they had gone to the toilet or had sexual urges but after they had just been created, but then I'm sure they would have found out what their bodies have sooner or later anyway.

I believe they didn't know that their bodies can support achieving sexual functions .
The hormones responsible for the growth of hair are actually the same hormones defining our masculinity and femininity, or may I say: sexuality?

http://health.howstuffworks.com/sexual-h...ionary.htm

It's not that far fetched, that a "chemical" compound in that fruit, caused the twist in human history.

Today, it's proven that cigarettes and tobacco products do change human DNA and alter it, causing mutations to children and such.
 So why wouldn't the tree Satan chose, does the same thing to our ancestors?

I'm saying the verse doesn't mention hair, it mentions clothes.

[ReptilianPeon]

Yeah that doesn't deserve drawing guns. My point was: saying it's an order contradicts the "no compulsion" portion of your posts. But to be clear, many of those spreading the cultural hegemony al-Saud are so slimy that even getting close to them (not necessarily touch) will cause some the slime to transfer to you.

If Zakir Naik came to my door is be so angry you wouldn't believe. He's a noon. And he's not on the Indian Medical Register so he's not a real medical doctor.

Just ordered the new Study Quran today. So I should be much better now! Need to find some room for as it looks huge

[The Grand Nudger]

I believe they didn't know that their bodies can support achieving sexual functions .
The hormones responsible for the growth of hair are actually the same hormones defining our masculinity and femininity, or may I say: sexuality?

http://health.howstuffworks.com/sexual-h...ionary.htm

It's not that far fetched, that a "chemical" compound in that fruit, caused the twist in human history.

Today, it's proven that cigarettes and tobacco products do change human DNA and alter it, causing mutations to children and such.
 So why wouldn't the tree Satan chose, does the same thing to our ancestors?

Not that far fetched?  If you're grasping for something, anything, which can make the absurd seem even slightly less ridiculous...then I don;t know what you might mean by far fetched, I probably couldn't imagine.  But, on the face of it, it's more than just far fetched...it's a silly, non-factual, ad hoc rationalization.