The main reason I'm an atheist

[Pat Mustard]

I can see pretty well that here people do not actually want to learn anything,

Oh we've learned lots, if only you'd open your eyes to what we're showing you. Science is a far better instructor to reality than any religion created or yet to be created.

you have proven to be very aggresive to the views you do not agree with,

You're the one dismissing contradictory views with aggressive and dismissive language here, not us. To quote your favourite book (which you've clearly not read): "before you remove the mote from your companion's eye, be sure to remove the plank from your own".

and did what you knew best, as I see, mockery and ridiculizing.

Says the man who's not being aggressive.

Collectively in this post I have seen that you have very wrong ideas about christianity and, the worst of all, you do not plan on learning about why they are wrong but rather shield yourselves against everything that will go against your beliefs. It is very curious, in my opinion, that you show exactly the same behavior as your fellow "christian" debaters, but that doesn't seem to bother you.

We know a hell of a lot more about the how and the why of things than a man who only acknowledges a book filled with stone age and bronze age misinformation as being true. As best we can (and that varies from person to person) we listen to what scientists are finding out, study their results and learn about reality.

The german philosopher, Wilhelm Hegel, held an interesting idea: You have to be very attentive at the ideas that are contrary to yours because they, most likely, hold a truth inside them.

You should listen to him then. We have brought valuable information to the table, all you've brought is aggressive derision and ridicule without having any basis behind your worldview other than a long discredited book.

It is very clear to me that your atheism show all the "garbage" that protestant and roman-catholic theology begot, and your atheism is the refutation of the God that is a product to said theology, that is why aggresiveness is shown in every each of you when talking about this said God.

Now you're just getting idiotic. There are many different paths to atheism, from catholicism, from protestantism, from buddhism, from islam, from hinduism, from whatever crap you've deluded yourself into believing. Hell some atheists have never had religious beliefs, having been brought up without that insidious virus. Once you study your beliefs sceptically you'll realise where we are coming from.

I have the suspicion that men today believe in God more than at any other time in human history.

Humans don't believe more now than they used to, in fact humanity has never been less godless in recorded history. Here's some data that you'll doubtless ignore.

Men know the gospel, the teaching of the Church, and God’s creation better than at any other time. They have a profound consciousness of His existence.

That's your problem right there, yes. Just like it would "take a heart of stone to read the death of little Nell without laughing" it would take a mind of shit to read the bible and still believe.

Their atheism is not a real disbelief. It is rather an aversion toward somebody we know very well but whom we hate with all our heart, exactly as the demons do.

My atheism stems from disbelief. Coupled with my thorough reading of the bible is real world evidence which shows to me that the abrahamic god is an impossibility and that any generic god is so unlikely that there is no point accepting their existence without compelling evidence. You are unable to provide any evidence.

I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post because it just quickly descends into vile libelous trash, a simple screed of hate from an ill informed, unthinking and uncomprehending mind for which the best response is to say "why do you hate others who don't think as you so badly?" and shake one's head at the waste of so much potential. You could have been better, but you are content to wallow in the shit.

[drfuzzy]

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I can see pretty well that here people do not actually want to learn anything, you have proven to be very aggresive to the views you do not agree with, and did what you knew best, as I see, mockery and ridiculizing. Collectively in this post I have seen that you have very wrong ideas about christianity and, the worst of all, you do not plan on learning about why they are wrong but rather shield yourselves against everything that will go against your beliefs. It is very curious, in my opinion, that you show exactly the same behavior as your fellow "christian" debaters, but that doesn't seem to bother you.

The german philosopher, Wilhelm Hegel, held an interesting idea: You have to be very attentive at the ideas that are contrary to yours because they, most likely, hold a truth inside them. It is very clear to me that your atheism show all the "garbage" that protestant and roman-catholic theology begot, and your atheism is the refutation of the God that is a product to said theology, that is why aggresiveness is shown in every each of you when talking about this said God.

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I have the suspicion that men today believe in God more than at any other time in human history.

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Men know the gospel, the teaching of the Church, and God’s creation better than at any other time. They have a profound consciousness of His existence. Their atheism is not a real disbelief. It is rather an aversion toward somebody we know very well but whom we hate with all our heart, exactly as the demons do.

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You hate God,

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that is you we ignore Him, overlooking Him as if you did not see Him, and pretending to be atheists. In reality you consider Him your enemy par excellence. Your negation is your vengeance, your atheism is your revenge. But why do you hate God? You hate Him not only because "your" deeds are dark while God is light, but also because you consider Him as a menace, as an imminent and eternal danger, as an adversary in court, as an opponent at law, as a public prosecutor and an eternal persecutor. To you, God is no more the almighty physician who came to save them from illness and death to you, but rather a cruel judge and a vengeful inquisitor.

You see, the devil managed to make men believe that God does not really love us, that He really only loves Himself, and that He accepts us only if we behave as He wants us to behave; that He hates us if we do not behave as He ordered us to behave, and is offended by our insubordination to such a degree that we must pay for it by eternal tortures, created by Him for that purpose.

Who can love a torturer? Even those who try hard to save themselves from the wrath of God cannot really love Him. They love only themselves, trying to escape God’s vengeance and to achieve eternal bliss by managing to please this fearsome and extremely dangerous Creator. Do you perceive the devil’s slander of our all loving, all kind, and absolutely good God? That is why in Greek the devil was given the name diabolos, “the slanderer”.

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There are entire countries now that are atheist: Sweden, Iceland, etc.  A recent Pew report shows that the largest (and growing) religious demographic is the "nones".  The ones who state that they have no religion.   http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/201...ous-group/

I don't hate god.  Atheists don't hate god.  Do you hate Santa Claus? Do you hate the Easter Bunny?  The Tooth Fairy?  How about the goddess Athena - I think she's awesome.  Osiris?  Do you hate Marduk?  He probably hates you back.

Your threats make no sense, other than the little itty bitty toddler temper tantrum you are throwing because we disagree with you.  Grow up.

[Angrboda]

I'm not an atheist because I hate the Christian god. I just find Christian beliefs and double talk to be absurd. You brought the True Christian theme in with you when you opened the door. "Ooh, look at me. My belief is different." Bollocks. You and every other Christian think that they alone are different. In that you are the same. You are also the same in believing a bunch of silly things based on your pet interpretation of the bible. I don't hate god. I don't even hate you or religion. But I do believe you are silly and wrong in your belief in the existence of the Christian god.

[LadyForCamus]

I can see pretty well that here people do not actually want to learn anything, you have proven to be very aggresive to the views you do not agree with, and did what you knew best, as I see, mockery and ridiculizing. Collectively in this post I have seen that you have very wrong ideas about christianity and, the worst of all, you do not plan on learning about why they are wrong but rather shield yourselves against everything that will go against your beliefs. It is very curious, in my opinion, that you show exactly the same behavior as your fellow "christian" debaters, but that doesn't seem to bother you.

The german philosopher, Wilhelm Hegel, held an interesting idea: You have to be very attentive at the ideas that are contrary to yours because they, most likely, hold a truth inside them. It is very clear to me that your atheism show all the "garbage" that protestant and roman-catholic theology begot, and your atheism is the refutation of the God that is a product to said theology, that is why aggresiveness is shown in every each of you when talking about this said God.

I have the suspicion that men today believe in God more than at any other time in human history. Men know the gospel, the teaching of the Church, and God’s creation better than at any other time. They have a profound consciousness of His existence. Their atheism is not a real disbelief. It is rather an aversion toward somebody we know very well but whom we hate with all our heart, exactly as the demons do.

You hate God, that is you we ignore Him, overlooking Him as if you did not see Him, and pretending to be atheists. In reality you consider Him your enemy par excellence. Your negation is your vengeance, your atheism is your revenge. But why do you hate God? You hate Him not only because "your" deeds are dark while God is light, but also because you consider Him as a menace, as an imminent and eternal danger, as an adversary in court, as an opponent at law, as a public prosecutor and an eternal persecutor. To you, God is no more the almighty physician who came to save them from illness and death to you, but rather a cruel judge and a vengeful inquisitor.

You see, the devil managed to make men believe that God does not really love us, that He really only loves Himself, and that He accepts us only if we behave as He wants us to behave; that He hates us if we do not behave as He ordered us to behave, and is offended by our insubordination to such a degree that we must pay for it by eternal tortures, created by Him for that purpose.

Who can love a torturer? Even those who try hard to save themselves from the wrath of God cannot really love Him. They love only themselves, trying to escape God’s vengeance and to achieve eternal bliss by managing to please this fearsome and extremely dangerous Creator. Do you perceive the devil’s slander of our all loving, all kind, and absolutely good God? That is why in Greek the devil was given the name diabolos, “the slanderer”.

Wow, thanks for psychoanalyzing all of us. Unfortunately you are wrong. I can't hate something I don't believe exists in the first place. But if you need to tell yourself that because it gives you some kind of strange comfort, than so be it. Your God of the scripture is a murderous, vengeful, controlling, petty creature with anger management issues and an insatiable thirst for blood. I mean, I'm assuming you've read the OT? Yahweh is one of the most morally bankrupt characters in all of human history. So, even if he were real, I'd never worship him.

[Redbeard The Pink]

I can see pretty well that here people do not actually want to learn anything, you have proven to be very aggresive to the views you do not agree with, and did what you knew best, as I see, mockery and ridiculizing. Collectively in this post I have seen that you have very wrong ideas about christianity and, the worst of all, you do not plan on learning about why they are wrong but rather shield yourselves against everything that will go against your beliefs. It is very curious, in my opinion, that you show exactly the same behavior as your fellow "christian" debaters, but that doesn't seem to bother you.

The german philosopher, Wilhelm Hegel, held an interesting idea: You have to be very attentive at the ideas that are contrary to yours because they, most likely, hold a truth inside them. It is very clear to me that your atheism show all the "garbage" that protestant and roman-catholic theology begot, and your atheism is the refutation of the God that is a product to said theology, that is why aggresiveness is shown in every each of you when talking about this said God.

I have the suspicion that men today believe in God more than at any other time in human history. Men know the gospel, the teaching of the Church, and God’s creation better than at any other time. They have a profound consciousness of His existence. Their atheism is not a real disbelief. It is rather an aversion toward somebody we know very well but whom we hate with all our heart, exactly as the demons do.

You hate God, that is you we ignore Him, overlooking Him as if you did not see Him, and pretending to be atheists. In reality you consider Him your enemy par excellence. Your negation is your vengeance, your atheism is your revenge. But why do you hate God? You hate Him not only because "your" deeds are dark while God is light, but also because you consider Him as a menace, as an imminent and eternal danger, as an adversary in court, as an opponent at law, as a public prosecutor and an eternal persecutor. To you, God is no more the almighty physician who came to save them from illness and death to you, but rather a cruel judge and a vengeful inquisitor.

You see, the devil managed to make men believe that God does not really love us, that He really only loves Himself, and that He accepts us only if we behave as He wants us to behave; that He hates us if we do not behave as He ordered us to behave, and is offended by our insubordination to such a degree that we must pay for it by eternal tortures, created by Him for that purpose.

Who can love a torturer? Even those who try hard to save themselves from the wrath of God cannot really love Him. They love only themselves, trying to escape God’s vengeance and to achieve eternal bliss by managing to please this fearsome and extremely dangerous Creator. Do you perceive the devil’s slander of our all loving, all kind, and absolutely good God? That is why in Greek the devil was given the name diabolos, “the slanderer”.

"Yeah, well, you guys have just obviously been listening to Catholics and Protestants, and they aren't even True Scotsmen!"


If your theology is right and theirs is wrong, demonstrate that with evidence. Otherwise, Orthodox Christians have no more claim to "True Christianity™" than anyone else. Unless you have evidence to back up your claims, they are no better than the claims of the Christians you denounce, and you're guilty of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy...again.

[Wryetui]

I can see pretty well that here people do not actually want to learn anything, you have proven to be very aggresive to the views you do not agree with, and did what you knew best, as I see, mockery and ridiculizing. Collectively in this post I have seen that you have very wrong ideas about christianity and, the worst of all, you do not plan on learning about why they are wrong but rather shield yourselves against everything that will go against your beliefs. It is very curious, in my opinion, that you show exactly the same behavior as your fellow "christian" debaters, but that doesn't seem to bother you.

The german philosopher, Wilhelm Hegel, held an interesting idea: You have to be very attentive at the ideas that are contrary to yours because they, most likely, hold a truth inside them. It is very clear to me that your atheism show all the "garbage" that protestant and roman-catholic theology begot, and your atheism is the refutation of the God that is a product to said theology, that is why aggresiveness is shown in every each of you when talking about this said God.

I have the suspicion that men today believe in God more than at any other time in human history. Men know the gospel, the teaching of the Church, and God’s creation better than at any other time. They have a profound consciousness of His existence. Their atheism is not a real disbelief. It is rather an aversion toward somebody we know very well but whom we hate with all our heart, exactly as the demons do.

You hate God, that is you we ignore Him, overlooking Him as if you did not see Him, and pretending to be atheists. In reality you consider Him your enemy par excellence. Your negation is your vengeance, your atheism is your revenge. But why do you hate God? You hate Him not only because "your" deeds are dark while God is light, but also because you consider Him as a menace, as an imminent and eternal danger, as an adversary in court, as an opponent at law, as a public prosecutor and an eternal persecutor. To you, God is no more the almighty physician who came to save them from illness and death to you, but rather a cruel judge and a vengeful inquisitor.

You see, the devil managed to make men believe that God does not really love us, that He really only loves Himself, and that He accepts us only if we behave as He wants us to behave; that He hates us if we do not behave as He ordered us to behave, and is offended by our insubordination to such a degree that we must pay for it by eternal tortures, created by Him for that purpose.

Who can love a torturer? Even those who try hard to save themselves from the wrath of God cannot really love Him. They love only themselves, trying to escape God’s vengeance and to achieve eternal bliss by managing to please this fearsome and extremely dangerous Creator. Do you perceive the devil’s slander of our all loving, all kind, and absolutely good God? That is why in Greek the devil was given the name diabolos, “the slanderer”.

"Yeah, well, you guys have just obviously been listening to Catholics and Protestants, and they aren't even True Scotsmen!"


If your theology is right and theirs is wrong, demonstrate that with evidence. Otherwise, Orthodox Christians have no more claim to "True Christianity™" than anyone else. Unless you have evidence to back up your claims, they are no better than the claims of the Christians you denounce, and you're guilty of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy...again.

I do not know what "evidence" you are referring to, but the very main reason why I believe my theology is right and theirs is wrong is because the Orthodox Church has kept the original theology of the Church Fathers of the early centuries, the first theology that existed. If you read the writings of the early Church Fathers you will see that they are describing pretty much what the Orthodox Church is right now, the same beliefs, practices, ecclesiology... The Catholic Church was pretty much the same, but since the Great Schism, its theology changed drastically, now it is a product of the middle ages. The theology of the non-chalcedonian churches, was created by Eutiches and his monophysitism in the 5th century, they also claim to be the original Church with the original theology, bu, what happened to the first five centuries, since their theology was created before Chalcedon? I am not here to criticize the sincere convictions of other christians, but history is history.

A Church cannot change, in my opinion, at all, merely because God does not change and His Church must be a reflection of Him, once a Church changes it becomes clearly that it is the subject of human guidance, not divine.

[Wryetui]

I have another question. I have seen that in this post, people have accused me that my only fountain of knowledge is "a filthy book from the bronze age". What is the nature of this claim? What book is this? In what are you based for saying that about me?

[Redbeard The Pink]

"Yeah, well, you guys have just obviously been listening to Catholics and Protestants, and they aren't even True Scotsmen!"


If your theology is right and theirs is wrong, demonstrate that with evidence. Otherwise, Orthodox Christians have no more claim to "True Christianity™" than anyone else. Unless you have evidence to back up your claims, they are no better than the claims of the Christians you denounce, and you're guilty of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy...again.

I do not know what "evidence" you are referring to, but the very main reason why I believe my theology is right and theirs is wrong is because the Orthodox Church has kept the original theology of the Church Fathers of the early centuries, the first theology that existed. If you read the writings of the early Church Fathers you will see that they are describing pretty much what the Orthodox Church is right now, the same beliefs, practices, ecclesiology... The Catholic Church was pretty much the same, but since the Great Schism, its theology changed drastically, now it is a product of the middle ages. The theology of the non-chalcedonian churches, was created by Eutiches and his monophysitism in the 5th century, they also claim to be the original Church with the original theology, bu, what happened to the first five centuries, since their theology was created before Chalcedon? I am not here to criticize the sincere convictions of other christians, but history is history.

A Church cannot change, in my opinion, at all, merely because God does not change and His Church must be a reflection of Him, once a Church changes it becomes clearly that it is the subject of human guidance, not divine.

Sooo...because it was first, it must be correct?


That is asinine. If your Theology is better, there should be some kind of demonstrable evidence that shows this fact. Otherwise, your religious beliefs are just as made up as everyone else's.


The "filthy book from the Bronze Age" would be the Bible. Please tell me you're not that obtuse.

[Wryetui]

I do not know what "evidence" you are referring to, but the very main reason why I believe my theology is right and theirs is wrong is because the Orthodox Church has kept the original theology of the Church Fathers of the early centuries, the first theology that existed. If you read the writings of the early Church Fathers you will see that they are describing pretty much what the Orthodox Church is right now, the same beliefs, practices, ecclesiology... The Catholic Church was pretty much the same, but since the Great Schism, its theology changed drastically, now it is a product of the middle ages. The theology of the non-chalcedonian churches, was created by Eutiches and his monophysitism in the 5th century, they also claim to be the original Church with the original theology, bu, what happened to the first five centuries, since their theology was created before Chalcedon? I am not here to criticize the sincere convictions of other christians, but history is history.

A Church cannot change, in my opinion, at all, merely because God does not change and His Church must be a reflection of Him, once a Church changes it becomes clearly that it is the subject of human guidance, not divine.

Sooo...because it was first, it must be correct?


That is asinine. If your Theology is better, there should be some kind of demonstrable evidence that shows this fact. Otherwise, your religious beliefs are just as made up as everyone else's.


The "filthy book from the Bronze Age" would be the Bible. Please tell me you're not that obtuse.

It is right because it is the original one and because it was developed from the apostolic fathers, that learned from the apostles.

And what kind of demonstrable evidence would you be satisfacted with? You said I did not read "the Bible", what evidence do you have for this?

However, the Bible is not a book. It is a collection of 80 writings of different epochs and persons. And it is a product of Sacred Tradition, that existed from the beginning of the revelation, only later it got written. And no, my main fountaine of knowledge it is not any of the books of Sacred Scripture, but rather Sacred Tradition.

[LadyForCamus]

Sooo...because it was first, it must be correct?


That is asinine. If your Theology is better, there should be some kind of demonstrable evidence that shows this fact. Otherwise, your religious beliefs are just as made up as everyone else's.


The "filthy book from the Bronze Age" would be the Bible. Please tell me you're not that obtuse.

It is right because it is the original one and because it was developed from the apostolic fathers, that learned from the apostles.

And what kind of demonstrable evidence would you be satisfacted with? You said I did not read "the Bible", what evidence do you have for this?

However, the Bible is not a book. It is a collection of 80 writings of different epochs and persons. And it is a product of Sacred Tradition, that existed from the beginning of the revelation, only later it got written. And no, my main fountaine of knowledge it is not any of the books of Sacred Scripture, but rather Sacred Tradition.

In other words: hearsay.