How "reincarnation" might work?

[chasbanner]

There probably are infinite universes but there is the question of whether there could be a universe with physical laws that allow the existence of spider-powers

[ignoramus]

There probably are infinite universes but there is the question of whether there could be a universe with physical laws that allow the existence of spider-powers

Absolutely 100% guarantee.
The only catch is because of those laws of that universe, everyone's a spider man...

[Ben Davis]

Why is having a separate consciousness so important to defining oneself?

It's simply is the only way to define an individual's subjective awareness. You know that you are you and not anyone else; you don't see out of anyone else's eyes, think anyone else's thoughts.

A copy's identity is mostly potential. If you split up and had different experience you *would* indeed become more different.

'Identity' can be described in 2 ways, from internal or external perspectives. Externally, if a copy's good enough/identical, the identity would be considered the same at the point of copying but from then on would diverge with increasing variance over time due to subjective experience. Internally, it doesn't matter how good the copy is, identity is not shared; each subjective awareness would be individual.

If you did not separate and develop as separate beings with different experiences and instead could somehow share all knowledge over time it would be difficult to distinguish you apart. One could answer a question asked by the other.

Only from an external perspective. Internally, each being would be aware that they are themselves and not the other.

In and of it's self having separate consciousnesses doesn't *do* anything.

I disagree. It's fundamental to understand that the individual subjective awareness is the sole internal quantification of identity.

And as i said it's "reincarnation" in quotes.

And my point is it's not reincarnation in the sense that reincarnation is sold to us: it's not a continuance of 'you', it's an emergence of a completely new and separate subjective awareness. 'You' still die and your awareness ceases to exist. In some ways, being continued by a clone could be considered worse than simply dying in that an impostor takes your place, steals your friends, your lovers, your children; you're supplanted rather than continuing. That would stick hard in the craw of many people.

[Brian37]

No, there is no such thing as "reincarnation". Our atoms get recycled yes. We are "stardust" yes. But atoms as individual atoms do not act as our in tact functional bodies. We were not a former life, nor will we become another life after we die. We are individual finite life and once we die, the individual we are dies and stays dead.

"reincarnation" is simply a another superstition humans invented to ignore our finite reality.

[chasbanner]

 “Individual's subjective awareness”

Awareness is not a good enough criteria. For one thing awareness is combination of unbroken continuity and a little data. The data *is* important. Data can be recreated. 
But the unbroken continuity is not enough to define a person.

For example: You begin to change for some reason molecule by molecule into another person, say Mussolini, all the while maintaining your continuity. All the while your continuity is persevered and yet in the end… you are gone and there is only Mussolini. Continuity is simply not enough.

 For another thing: sleep
 
You don’t see out of your future self’s eyes (at present).  You don’t think your past self-thoughts and yet they are considered the same person

“Internally, each being would be aware that they are themselves and not the other”

Actually with the same memories they would have no idea who had thought what.

 
Having separate consciousness’s doesn't *do* anything. 
The point of Science is that practical concerns are all. What we can see. What we can feel.
We define almost everything else (machines, books, resources) by what it does. If one is replaced by a perfect copy, broken continuity is an invisible force that doesn’t affect anything. It does nothing, so it is nothing. If it does something it only does so because it affects one’s form.
 If you don’t care about it, it doesn’t matter. Consider Captain Kirk “killing” and "recreating"himself each time he beamed down to a planet.

For the record if I was replaced by a perfect copy I would not care. Heck I’d hope to get a trade up to a better looking version.

One’s Form is important because it comprises all of the things that are the things that make us what we are.
One important thing to keep in mind is that people are not set in stone. A clone would change to be different to the original but then so do you. Almost everything does change… a lot, every second from day to day.
 To be you a body just has to be as much you as you twenty years ago. 
There is a good deal of wriggle room.
They just have to have enough of your important aspects to meet that standard.
Continuity is quite a minor aspect. I mean it’s important in paying your bills and keeping your heart beating but in defining a self it is just a line through time and space like everyone else’s.

Having a clone is somewhat like having a future self time-travel. You can see you from the outside and occupy a different space. But it is still you. Simply a you, living a different life.

Why do people care so much about the body/finite consciousness?  Instinct. Millions of years of evolution have wired us to care a great deal about this body but that does not mean it is important in defining us. Wanting something is an important part of you but that does not mean that you need “something” to be yourself.
 We also have a deep fear of the “other”. Of the doppelganger and life stealer.

[Phosphorescent Panties]

To be honest, I've thought about the strange circumstances required for a human being to gain consciousness. How did I come from being nothing, to being passed into my parent's gene pool and essentially being born as child. Somehow, I think that in order for one to gain consciousness and be a living organism, you have to come from a human being. It's not like the dirt around us just magically coalesces into what's required for a human being. So I think that basically it's a one shot deal, when you die it's not like your going to find yourself in a situation again where you can form consciousness.

It does make me wonder though, how did I get my consciousness? How does consciousness even form and how come we all share a separate consciousness? What is the cycle required for each individual to go from basically not existing to having a consciousness and experiencing the world. I've heard a lot of talk about copying the data of people's brains into a machine, but then wouldn't they not be the same person as the brain they were configured from? You'd essentially be making a copy of the same person, but the person who had the body wouldn't all of a sudden experience being in an artificial brain. At least, I couldn't imagine how science could ever pull that off. Maybe some day it could, I wish that we were already there.

[robvalue]

It baffles the hell out of me. I doubt I'll ever get my head round it (pun intended).

[ignoramus]

All higher animals have consciousness.
They may not seem intelligent like we are, but are aware of their thoughts and surroundings.

I'd say anything that can dream is conscious and self aware.

[robvalue]

Does the definition not include anything with a (properly functioning) brain?

[Ben Davis]

Awareness is not a good enough criteria. For one thing awareness is combination of unbroken continuity and a little data. The data *is* important. Data can be recreated. 
But the unbroken continuity is not enough to define a person.

As an analogy, the combination of hardware, software & data define the person.

For example: You begin to change for some reason molecule by molecule into another person, say Mussolini, all the while maintaining your continuity. All the while your continuity is persevered and yet in the end… you are gone and there is only Mussolini. Continuity is simply not enough.

Erm, no... my continuity is not preserved as I'm no longer there as I've been replaced.

For another thing: sleep

Well, sleep doesn't interrupt my continuity as I'm still alive.
 

You don’t see out of your future self’s eyes (at present). You don’t think your past self-thoughts and yet they are considered the same person

But I will (unless I die of course), I did and I do. The identity results because they're emergent from my individual combination of hardware, software and data.

Actually with the same memories they would have no idea who had thought what.

That may be true but they would be completely aware that they're not each other and any new memories would be unique and divergent thus reinforcing the point that they're individuals.
 

Having separate consciousness’s doesn't *do* anything.

Erm... yes it does, it marks individuality.
 

The point of Science is that practical concerns are all. What we can see. What we can feel.
We define almost everything else (machines, books, resources) by what it does.

But not just by what it does but also by what it is. We can tell the difference between two different copies of the same book. We don't pretend they're the same entity simply because they do the same thing.

If one is replaced by a perfect copy, broken continuity is an invisible force that doesn't affect anything. It does nothing, so it is nothing. If it does something it only does so because it affects one’s form.

That makes no sense. If I've been replaced then my personal identity ceases to exist along with me. That's a pretty big 'something'! Remember that we're talking about reincarnation here where a basic requirement is that I continue after my death, not a copy, me, my individual awareness.

If you don’t care about it, it doesn't matter. Consider Captain Kirk “killing” and "recreating"himself each time he beamed down to a planet.

He wasn't killed and recreated, he was disassembled and reassembled, perfectly.

One’s Form is important because it comprises all of the things that are the things that make us what we are.
One important thing to keep in mind is that people are not set in stone. A clone would change to be different to the original but then so do you. Almost everything does change… a lot, every second from day to day.
 To be you a body just has to be as much you as you twenty years ago. 
There is a good deal of wriggle room.
They just have to have enough of your important aspects to meet that standard.
Continuity is quite a minor aspect. I mean it’s important in paying your bills and keeping your heart beating but in defining a self it is just a line through time and space like everyone else’s.

None of that matters if it's not my specific individual awareness doing the experiencing. Personal continuity may be only one part of the jigsaw but it's an essential one.

Having a clone is somewhat like having a future self time-travel. You can see you from the outside and occupy a different space. But it is still you. Simply a you, living a different life.

No, it's not me. It's a clone. It can not be me, no matter what it appears to be from an external perspective.

Why do people care so much about the body/finite consciousness?  Instinct. Millions of years of evolution have wired us to care a great deal about this body but that does not mean it is important in defining us.

That's simply not true. When defining individual identity, it's essential.