Dr. Craig is a liar.

[Jehanne]

[RoadRunner79]

My knowledge of God, comes from the scriptures.

I don't believe in any of that; you can start another thread on that topic, if you wish.

Fair enough.... I've talked a little bit about it in the past (it always seems to bring out the conspiracy theory nuts).  However it doesn't change the arguments from the evidence found science about the cause. 

As for "uncaused events," some things in physics are counter-intuitive.  Imagine that you are standing alongside a track, and train is approaching you at 50 mph.  You have a tennis ball, which you throw directly at the train at 30 mph, hitting it dead center.  How fast will the tennis ball rebound back towards you?  (No cheating!)  Write your answer down before  proceeding.

Why is it, that every time I ask this question (why it is believed that something can come from nothing)  I get an interesting but completely unrelated anecdote? 

Now a key principle in science is causality; and part of that principle is that the cause(s) need be sufficient for the effect.  Now in your example, you explained where the possibly unexpected acceleration came from.  But if I where to try this as an experiment, and I come up with a result that I didn't expect.  Even after I study the data, I may not understand or be able to reason where this unexpected momentum came from.  So, what I would do is insert an unknown variable in the equation, that requires an explanation.  As we are dealing with a lot of theoretical physics in this conversation, you may see this (where a constant is added, to balance out the equation).  Now I believe that a good scientist see's this as in need of a reason. 

In you example, you start out with a train moving at a set speed, and a tennis ball moving at a set speed in the opposite direction along the same plane.  And you explained why the equation balanced out to give you a tennis ball moving at 130 MPH on the other side of the equation.   Now lets add nothing to the equation.... do we get the same answer?  Would it be reasonable that by adding nothing to causal side of the equation, that I would get a tennis ball moving away at 200MPH now?

[Mister Agenda]

Physics can't get closer to nothing than 'quantum foam'. There's no particular reason to think less than that is possible.

[Time Traveler]

[Faith No More]

You have no reason to think that whatsoever. Don't confuse metaphysics with physics.

I'm not thinking anything. I'm showing that you're applying principles in an inappropriate matter. Cause and effect does not apply when time does not exist, period.

And unfortunately for you, metaphysics is entirely reliant upon what physics says is possible. Stop abusing philosophy to try to make it conform to your desires.

[JesusHChrist]

[Mister Agenda]

[JesusHChrist]

I wish I could take credit for the post that you have me as the source of; alas, I can not. Probably an issue with the quoty thingy.

Grrr. Fixed. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Mister Agenda]

I like to think we've all been there, not just you and me. :-)

[wiploc]

What one thing is that?  And how do you conclude that I believe it didn't begin to exist?  Your knowledge of my opinions that I didn't know I had fascinates me.



Aren't you the one claiming that only one thing didn't begin to exist?  Does that make you guilty of affirming the consequent?  








Contrary to your fantasies about my mental state, I don't have an opinion on this topic.  

Wiploc, I'd say you've gotten mixed up replying to this post. Simon was replying to Steve.
[/quote]

Thanks for the correction. 

And to Steve, I offer my apology.