Most Humans Do NOT Have Completely Frree Will

[Ignorant]

Do humans have a will at all? What is it?

[Little lunch]

Did someone mention free will?
Cool, I'll have three bags worth please.

[Little lunch]

I'm not sure what will is.
It most be fucking huge cause I have a willy.

[brewer]

This is a totally secular discussion and has nothing to do with god.

First, I should start by defining what I mean by free will. You may not agree with my definition. In that case we are not talking about the same thing and should use different terminology for different concepts if we want to communicate effect. Arguing over the one true definition of “free will” will get us nowhere. So I will describe a concept which I will here designate “Free Will.”

But even before I do that, I find that I must define “will.” I differentiate between will and desire. It is my will to stay healthy and have a reasonable amount of weight. It is my desire to eat as much chocolate as I can get my hands on. So my will is that falulty which once informed about the outcomes available to me chosen outcome. Whereas desire is what brings a moment of pleasure irrespective of the final outcome.

A free will then is one which is first informed and then not overwhelmed by contradictory desires.

Based on these definitions, I conclude that humans do not have free will.

1. We are often required to choose actions when we don’t know the outcome. To choose an action without information is not an exercise of the will, even if those who have power over you to force you to make such chooses insist on holding us responsible for those chooses.
2. Most of us know that scratching mosquito bites does not stop the itching.  We tell ourselves every summer that we will not scratch. Yet, we do it anyway, knowing that scratching may cause the bite to sting and get infected. We can’t even say we do it because we want relief, for it brings no respite.  We have information about the outcome, but our will is overwhelmed by the desire to scratch.

As for 1, don't you make an assessment of the possible outcomes and then make a choice based on your analysis? Sounds like free will.

As for 2, does anyone have free will over reflexive or autonomic brain functions? When the doctor hits you on the knee with the rubber hammer you will have the reflexive kick. If you watch the doctor you can override the reflex and stop the kick. Free will? Do you have free will to stop breathing? No, but you do have free will to hold your breath under water, at least for awhile. You can't stop your heart from beating either (well you can but lets not go there, apply this to the breathing also) but you can slow down the rate with free will by initiating a vagal response. Back to the itching, you can stop the reflex to scratch is you want. Just depends on how much "you want".

In my world free will exists on a sliding scale.

[Rhondazvous]

I tossed a coin and picked the tub of strawberry icecream instead of chocolate!

I removed any preconceived notions of free will and let another agency decide my fate!

(mind you, I had to do a best of 5 before I got my random desired unbiased outcome!)

The possibility of being deprived of chocolate doesn't recommend the coin toss to me.

[Rhondazvous]

I'm curious, if you think we have no free will, how would a world where we have free will look like?

A world where we have free will would be diametrically different. People would make decisions based on knowledge rather than emotions. You’ve may have heard the day sentiment precedes rationale. There would be no war because our leaders would not be moved by ego and greed. There would be far fewer diseases because people would live healthy and not glamourize unhealthy habits.  They would take pleasure from things that are good to and for them. We would have colonized other planets by now, found cures for cancer and the common cold. If we had free willpornography would not be a big business because men would not spend money on something that addicts but does not fulfull them.

[Rhondazvous]

I'm curious to know how a humans actions which are independent of outside variables would look like

As I said in the op, I define free will in terms of our knowledge of the outcomes of our actions and our ability to act without undue inner emotional pressure. Outside variables are not in the equation.

Did you read my op or did you just read the title and assume the rest was what you needed it to be so you could say what you wanted to say about the other free will threads?

[Edwardo Piet]

I'm curious, if you think we have no free will, how would a world where we have free will look like?

It wouldn't look any way because it's not even logically coherent or possible.

A world with compatablist free will would look the same as this one, because compatablist free will is just defined into existence and completely fails to address the question. It's labeling normal human freedom as "free will" to keep people happy, but it avoids the real issue and the opportunity for additional compassion for all individuals.

[abaris]

I think you're mixing up free will with freedom here, Rhonda.

My will is entirely free. I can will all kinds of stuff, even the impossible. However, I can't do everything my will dictates.

[Edwardo Piet]

The will is the part that has no freedom.

"Free Willpower" is an oxymoron.

The will is a force, it forces you. You can't motivate your will, your will motivates you.