Pfizer withdraws drugs from being used in executions

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Some states (not hard to imagine which) will almost certainly revert to other methods of execution.

I can see the relatively more liberal states that still have the death penalty perhaps using this to abolish it. I've just looked up which states still use the death penalty, and tbh I'm actually surprised California is among them. It seems (predictably) that the more Republican-leaning states are the ones which tend to still practice the death penalty, while the most staunchly Democratic ones have all abolished it. There's only a few exceptions to that rule

All States have the death penalty.  They allow the cops to kill whomever they like and then give them a pat on the back for a job well done.

[Alex K]

If you're going to kill people, why not make the most of it. Shoot them with an artillerly cannon North Korea style

Which obviously didn't happen, since the guy resurfaced at the party congress. Which is a tough stunt to pull if being treated to artillery shells.

I know, I know... But it's the thought that counts!

[account_inactive]

Some states (not hard to imagine which) will almost certainly revert to other methods of execution.

I can see the relatively more liberal states that still have the death penalty perhaps using this to abolish it. I've just looked up which states still use the death penalty, and tbh I'm actually surprised California is among them. It seems (predictably) that the more Republican-leaning states are the ones which tend to still practice the death penalty, while the most staunchly Democratic ones have all abolished it. There's only a few exceptions to that rule

All States have the death penalty.  They allow the cops to kill whomever they like and then give them a pat on the back for a job well done.

You really hate cops, don't you? Let me guess, you got rejected from the academy or something?

[TheRocketSurgeon]

I don't think any of you watched the video Aractus posted, which is actually on point about how America treats prisoners, especially with regard to solitary confinement. The "like animals" comment was unnecessary, but I can understand how, based on our nation's treatment of its own citizens (let alone others), one might come to that conclusion.

The reason it's more expensive to execute than incarcerate has less to do with the appeals process (they get the same process every other case gets, but sometimes with the extra "layer" of challenging the sentence itself--whether the trial properly afforded the defendant the rights to have the jury find death necessary, or the prosecution/judge tried to "bend" the rules in order to make a Death finding more likely), and more to do with the necessity to keep Death Penalty convicts in solitary confinement, in special cellblock wings, and with specially-trained guards (guys who feel they have nothing to lose because they're already going to die will sometimes be more violent and must be more carefully watched) to feed them and transport them to the doctor, hospital, etc. Thus, the decade or so they spend appealing their case winds up being more expensive than three to four decades of treating them as normal prisoner.

There is really only one thing that should be in question, here: Is our justice system perfect, such that we would never risk our government murdering an innocent person because the conviction was tainted (in numerous possible ways), and do we lack evidence that our government has murdered innocent people who could have been freed by exonerating evidence that emerged later?

No. We have definitely killed people proved innocent by later technology (like DNA), even though they were "duly convicted by a jury of their peers" and had appeals. Literally over a hundred known cases.

This fact is becoming increasingly recognized in the rest of the world, which is why the USA is one of the last countries that executes people, and why the drug companies (for whom the USA is not their only market) are beginning to resist our bloodlust.

Besides, as someone who has spent years in solitary confinement (so they could try to break me to elicit a "confession" out of me that never came), and nearly a decade in high-security prisons as a result of a wrongful conviction, spending most of that time writing appeals for prisoners trying to have their terribly unconstitutional convictions reversed, I can tell you that if you have faith in the accuracy of a conviction, you've not paid attention. We can never be certain enough to execute someone, even if the perpetrator of the actual crime deserves nothing less than a bullet to the face, or a thousand papercuts followed by a catapult ride into a brine tank.

Do the actual killers deserve to be killed? Absolutely. But that's not enough reason for us to do it, given the issues at stake.

It's about who we say we are as a people. Even if we could be 100% certain of a person's guilt, there are questions as to the ethics of murdering our citizens in the name of the state. But as the justice system stands right now, if you're pro-death-penalty, you're no better than the people you wish to see killed. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is as I see it.

[abaris]

Do the actual killers deserve to be killed? Absolutely. But that's not enough reason for us to do it, given the issues at stake.

Not even every killer deserves to be treated to his own medicince. Even there's a distinction, depending on motif and circumstances. As for the "like animals" comment by Aractus, I hardly agree on anything he posts, but as far as first world countries go, the US treats prisoners worse than animals. At least I hope so, since the prison conditions would be unnecessarily cruel to any animal.

The reasons seem obvious. The US is a punitive country. Lock them up, do away with them, and throw away the keys. What would be considered a misdemeanor in other countries lands you in jail and/or a sexual offenders list there. Such as taking a leak in the streets or banging your better half outside the privacy of your home. Or posessing a minimal amount of illegal substances. All fed by the fact that the punitive system has been turned into yet another avenue to make profit and it's consequences.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I don't think any of you watched the video Aractus posted, which is actually on point about how America treats prisoners, especially with regard to solitary confinement. The "like animals" comment was unnecessary, but I can understand how, based on our nation's treatment of its own citizens (let alone others), one might come to that conclusion.

After that comment of his, I felt no need to humor him by paying any further attention to his views. Indeed, he's been a patronizing cunt for long enough around here that that animals comment came as no surprise to me -- at all.

If he wants consideration, he can behave with consideration.

Until then, he can enjoy having most people missing his contributions due to the fact that he's too stupid to take style and presentation into account when making a point.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

All States have the death penalty.  They allow the cops to kill whomever they like and then give them a pat on the back for a job well done.

You really hate cops, don't you? Let me guess, you got rejected from the academy or something?

Cops are the 1%'ers thugs.  There might be twelve good cops on the entire planet.

[Wyrd of Gawd]

Ref. Post #34: One of the main reasons Americans love the prison system and the death penalty is because of its brand of Christianity. Since they believe in a magic zombie who will make everything right in the end they see nothing wrong with getting their licks in against the sinners right now. The magic zombie will forgive them if they're wrong.

That line of thinking has allowed profiteers to take over the criminal justice system and to actually write laws making all kinds of behaviors criminal offenses that require lengthly prison time. That furnishes them with a guaranteed inventory of inmates that they can make money off of for decades. The current criminal system is actually a legal organized crime syndicate. It's also a variation of slavery, which the bigwigs love.

[abaris]

That line of thinking has allowed profiteers to take over the criminal justice system and to actually write laws making all kinds of behaviors criminal offenses that require lengthly prison time.

No, the American Ferengi culture has made it possible. Everything has to be turned into a dime. The only god involved is green, papery and features Ben Franklin.

[Aroura]

I don't think any of you watched the video Aractus posted, which is actually on point about how America treats prisoners, especially with regard to solitary confinement. The "like animals" comment was unnecessary, but I can understand how, based on our nation's treatment of its own citizens (let alone others), one might come to that conclusion.

The reason it's more expensive to execute than incarcerate has less to do with the appeals process (they get the same process every other case gets, but sometimes with the extra "layer" of challenging the sentence itself--whether the trial properly afforded the defendant the rights to have the jury find death necessary, or the prosecution/judge tried to "bend" the rules in order to make a Death finding more likely), and more to do with the necessity to keep Death Penalty convicts in solitary confinement, in special cellblock wings, and with specially-trained guards (guys who feel they have nothing to lose because they're already going to die will sometimes be more violent and must be more carefully watched) to feed them and transport them to the doctor, hospital, etc. Thus, the decade or so they spend appealing their case winds up being more expensive than three to four decades of treating them as normal prisoner.

There is really only one thing that should be in question, here: Is our justice system perfect, such that we would never risk our government murdering an innocent person because the conviction was tainted (in numerous possible ways), and do we lack evidence that our government has murdered innocent people who could have been freed by exonerating evidence that emerged later?

No. We have definitely killed people proved innocent by later technology (like DNA), even though they were "duly convicted by a jury of their peers" and had appeals. Literally over a hundred known cases.

This fact is becoming increasingly recognized in the rest of the world, which is why the USA is one of the last countries that executes people, and why the drug companies (for whom the USA is not their only market) are beginning to resist our bloodlust.

Besides, as someone who has spent years in solitary confinement (so they could try to break me to elicit a "confession" out of me that never came), and nearly a decade in high-security prisons as a result of a wrongful conviction, spending most of that time writing appeals for prisoners trying to have their terribly unconstitutional convictions reversed, I can tell you that if you have faith in the accuracy of a conviction, you've not paid attention. We can never be certain enough to execute someone, even if the perpetrator of the actual crime deserves nothing less than a bullet to the face, or a thousand papercuts followed by a catapult ride into a brine tank.

Do the actual killers deserve to be killed? Absolutely. But that's not enough reason for us to do it, given the issues at stake.

It's about who we say we are as a people. Even if we could be 100% certain of a person's guilt, there are questions as to the ethics of murdering our citizens in the name of the state. But as the justice system stands right now, if you're pro-death-penalty, you're no better than the people you wish to see killed. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is as I see it.

I watched it, and I totally agree that our system is fucked up, and the way we handle crime at ALL levels is also completely barbaric and wrong.

But saying all of us should then be treated the same is flat out stupid.  What about the people that picket outside courthouses and prison facilities, demanding change?  Clearly they disagree with the system, enough to try and fight it. And there are many of us who do disagree with the status quo.  Including you. 

I am 100% against the death penalty.  There is no reason to kill someone who is in custody.  Since I live close to the state capitol of my own state, I have been involved in attempts to ban the death penalty.  In response, our Governor put a moratorium on the death penalty a few years back. Sadly, the new governor says she plans to remove the moratorium, though she has not yet done so.

There are people in this thread who could use a little enlightenment, but even then, calling them animals and for them to be treated like animals won't fix those problem, will it?  It'll only piss them off and make them double down on their opinion.

Education is helpful, and the video is great, but most of those who differ in opinion aren't going to take it seriously when it is coupled with such a stupid insult.  Want to help?  Then educate and restrain yourself so you don't include the insults (Not directed at you, you seem like a very calm dude who rarely resorts to insults).