Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: November 16, 2024, 4:28 am
Atheist Forums › Community › Religion › Christianity v
1 John 4:1 compared to The No True Scotsman Fallacy and sophisms

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Thread Modes
1 John 4:1 compared to The No True Scotsman Fallacy and sophisms
LastPoet Offline
Leader of the gang of jerkoffs(tm)
*****
Religious Views: L'Uomo verrà portato dalla sua creazione
Posts: 18503
Threads: 79
Joined: May 29, 2010
Reputation: 125
#21
RE: 1 John 4:1 compared to The No True Scotsman Fallacy and sophisms
June 17, 2016 at 8:24 am
Why has this dude started posting in green?

I don't even understand what he wants to discuss.
Find
Reply
LadyForCamus Offline
Retired Staff
*****
Religious Views: Atheist
Posts: 9915
Threads: 53
Joined: November 27, 2015
Reputation: 92
#22
1 John 4:1 compared to The No True Scotsman Fallacy and sophisms
June 17, 2016 at 8:24 am
(June 17, 2016 at 8:20 am)Thomas Kelly252525 Wrote:
(June 17, 2016 at 7:57 am)LadyForCamus Wrote: Wtf is this guy talking about?!  


LadyForCamus,

If someone said to you that someone isn't a Christian and then you worked to use The No True Scotsman Fallacy to show them how you think they were wrong to say that and then later you looked at the words in 1 john 4:1, do you think you would judge yourself wrong for working to prove what you wanted by The No True Scotsman Fallacy ?


Just saying, "someone isn't a Christian," isn't exactly committing the NTS fallacy though, Thomas. It's used in refutation to evidence supporting an argument. You are going to have to give me a more specific example than what you just presented.
Nay_Sayer: “Nothing is impossible if you dream big enough, or in this case, nothing is impossible if you use a barrel of KY Jelly and a miniature horse.”

Wiser words were never spoken. 
Find
Reply
Thomas Kelly252525 Offline
Junior Member
**
Religious Views: Christian
Posts: 234
Threads: 2
Joined: June 12, 2016
Reputation: 0
#23
RE: 1 John 4:1 compared to The No True Scotsman Fallacy and sophisms
June 17, 2016 at 8:48 am (This post was last modified: June 17, 2016 at 8:51 am by Thomas Kelly252525.)
(June 17, 2016 at 8:19 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote:
(June 17, 2016 at 2:45 am)Thomas Kelly252525 Wrote: Is it wise to think popular logic is logical ?

We may discuss.

Thomas,

I think you need to describe what you are thinking more fully.   There seems to be more behind what your are trying to get at, but we can't know that.

RoadRunner79,

You may think how I started the thread was enough for a person with enough experience to realize what I was saying.


You may compare in an example below.

Christian says: That person who calls themself a Christian is not really a Christian.

Atheist says:  You are wrong to say that someone who calls themself Christian is not a Christian.

Christian says:  Have you ever looked at 1 John 4:1 ?
Find
Reply
The Grand Nudger Offline
Retired Staff
*****
Religious Views: Invasive
Posts: 67172
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation: 162
#24
RE: 1 John 4:1 compared to The No True Scotsman Fallacy and sophisms
June 17, 2016 at 8:53 am (This post was last modified: June 17, 2016 at 8:58 am by The Grand Nudger.)
-and then the "not a christian" responds with their own favorite cherry picked verse.

Romans 10:9.

Hopefully, you realize that a verse regarding evil spirits applied to the status of a person as a christian is a category error?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Find
Reply
LostLocke Offline
Member
***
Religious Views: Polyapathist
Posts: 2009
Threads: 2
Joined: October 8, 2012
Reputation: 26
#25
RE: 1 John 4:1 compared to The No True Scotsman Fallacy and sophisms
June 17, 2016 at 8:56 am (This post was last modified: June 17, 2016 at 8:56 am by LostLocke.)
You might think I'm crazy
To hang around with you
You might think I'm foolish
Or maybe it's untrue
Find
Reply
account_inactive Away
ㅤㅤㅤ
*****
Religious Views: ㅤㅤ
Posts: 12743
Threads: 92
Joined: January 3, 2016
Reputation: 85
#26
RE: 1 John 4:1 compared to The No True Scotsman Fallacy and sophisms
June 17, 2016 at 8:59 am
(June 17, 2016 at 8:24 am)LastPoet Wrote: Why has this dude started posting in green?

I don't even understand what he wants to discuss.

I was thinking the exact same thing.
Find
Reply
The Grand Nudger Offline
Retired Staff
*****
Religious Views: Invasive
Posts: 67172
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation: 162
#27
RE: 1 John 4:1 compared to The No True Scotsman Fallacy and sophisms
June 17, 2016 at 9:00 am (This post was last modified: June 17, 2016 at 9:00 am by The Grand Nudger.)
You can;t just -tease- with that one Bella

I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Find
Reply
RoadRunner79 Offline
Senior Member
****
Religious Views: Lack belief that there is no God
Posts: 3709
Threads: 18
Joined: September 29, 2015
Reputation: 10
#28
RE: 1 John 4:1 compared to The No True Scotsman Fallacy and sophisms
June 17, 2016 at 9:01 am
(June 17, 2016 at 8:48 am)Thomas Kelly252525 Wrote:
(June 17, 2016 at 8:19 am)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Thomas,

I think you need to describe what you are thinking more fully.   There seems to be more behind what your are trying to get at, but we can't know that.

RoadRunner79,

You may think how I started the thread was enough for a person with enough experience to realize what I was saying.


You may compare in an example below.

Christian says: That person who calls themself a Christian is not really a Christian.

Atheist says:  You are wrong to say that someone who calls themself Christian is not a Christian.

Christian says:  Have you ever looked at 1 John 4:1 ?

See, that is getting a little better.  Your first post was fairly cryptic

There are people; who misuse or don't understand the "No true Scottsman"  fallacy.  For some, if what they say is correct, then I am also legitimized, in requiring everyone to refer to me as Dr. Murray (Though I have no such degree).

In actuality, I don't think that it is pertinent if they are or are not a Christian, and that Augustine's thoughts; to never judge a philosophy by it's abuse is more relevant.
Find
Reply
The Grand Nudger Offline
Retired Staff
*****
Religious Views: Invasive
Posts: 67172
Threads: 140
Joined: June 28, 2011
Reputation: 162
#29
RE: 1 John 4:1 compared to The No True Scotsman Fallacy and sophisms
June 17, 2016 at 9:04 am
What you or augustine might consider to be abuse can easily be just some christian exercising their christian faith.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Find
Reply
Drich Offline
I'm the one who knocks
Religious Views: Bible based Christian
Posts: 13392
Threads: 187
Joined: March 18, 2012
Reputation: 48
#30
RE: 1 John 4:1 compared to The No True Scotsman Fallacy and sophisms
June 17, 2016 at 9:05 am
(June 17, 2016 at 2:45 am)Thomas Kelly252525 Wrote: Is it wise to think popular logic is logical ?

We may discuss.

True logic has nothing to do with popularity. it can be popular and at the same time a logical conclusion can be shunned.

So to answer your question yes it is wise, if the conclusion (popular or not) is logical.

What does this have to do with discerning a false PROPHET (not christian as you later point out) and a NTS fallacy?

Are you trying to defeat the logical fallacy? If so that is easily done in that Their are rules concerning what qualifies and disqualifies one as being a 'true Christian.' Where as their are no rules (aside from citizenship) of what qualifies a 'true scotsman.' The Fallacy points to a personal judgement as being the only qualifier as to who is and is not a scotsman, while a 'true christian' has to meet certain criteria as outlined in scripture.

Now that said, if you are not 'judging a prophet' by the guidlines set forth by scripture then you are indeed committing a no true Scotsman fallacy.
Wink
Find
Reply


Atheist Forums › Community › Religion › Christianity v
1 John 4:1 compared to The No True Scotsman Fallacy and sophisms

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Gospel of John controversy Jillybean 13 1568 June 12, 2024 at 10:54 pm
Last Post: Prycejosh1987
  Can "Jesus is God" be compared to "Ghost in the Shell" anime Woah0 17 2185 August 20, 2022 at 3:45 am
Last Post: zebo-the-fat
  How we found out Evolution is true fredd bear 38 3738 March 26, 2019 at 4:23 pm
Last Post: The Valkyrie
  Hey, Nobody Said It WASN'T True YahwehIsTheWay 17 3747 December 5, 2018 at 4:28 pm
Last Post: The Grand Nudger
  True Christianity Graufreud 53 6067 August 9, 2018 at 11:12 am
Last Post: Joods
  App for True Christians (TM) YahwehIsTheWay 1 764 April 29, 2017 at 3:35 pm
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  Theist ➤ Why ☠ Atheism is Evil Compared to ✠ Christianity The Joker 177 30828 December 3, 2016 at 11:24 pm
Last Post: Amarok
  Proposed: A common definition for "True Christian" Gawdzilla Sama 45 6433 September 28, 2016 at 3:52 am
Last Post: downbeatplumb
  Christianity Can't Be True Because... pipw1995 75 13757 August 31, 2016 at 1:18 pm
Last Post: Simon Moon
  The problem with "One true church claim" by catholics Romney 8 2371 August 30, 2016 at 4:39 pm
Last Post: vorlon13



Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)