Curious to know

[SofaKingHigh]

Brain dead my arse:

Brain Dead?

Prikky, these people know nothing right?  What is this?  Is it a conspiracy to stop your world view?

Please Prikky, how do we explain this away?  We need your help.

[Little Rik]

Brain dead my arse:

Brain Dead?

Prikky, these people know nothing right?  What is this?  Is it a conspiracy to stop your world view?

Please Prikky, how do we explain this away?  We need your help

Didn't I say that LR give free tuition?
Here I am.


There are enough experiences to knock down your theory.
Let us talk about just one experience but there are many more.

One of this experience was about one person that after he or she die (I forgot about the sex)
in the emergency room of the hospital saw what was happening inside the hospital.
He or she saw a nurse that drop a baby on the floor.
The baby had a fracture and was crying for the pain but the nurse was not ready to accept the responsibility so she put the baby in the cot and moved on as nothing happened.
When the person who had the NDE and saw what happened from above (so to speak) came back to life
he or she inform the doctors who brought him-her back to life of the incident so the baby with the fracture could be look after.

Now you tell me how could the brain see what happen inside the hospital?
The brain doesn't but the consciousness can therefore it was the consciousness that took over once the brain was gone.  

[robvalue]

Just because a doctor pronounces someone dead at a certain point, that doesn't mean anything the person experiences past that point has to be real, or that magic is happening. Doctors really aren't that powerful.

And clearly if they come back to life, they were only dead according to certain criteria and not fatally dead.

We've all said no. Now what? Did you think we'd all accept it?

[SofaKingHigh]

Brain dead my arse:

Brain Dead?

Prikky, these people know nothing right?  What is this?  Is it a conspiracy to stop your world view?

Please Prikky, how do we explain this away?  We need your help

Didn't I say that LR give free tuition?
Here I am.


There are enough experiences to knock down your theory.
Let us talk about just one experience but there are many more.

One of this experience was about one person that after he or she die (I forgot about the sex)
in the emergency room of the hospital saw what was happening inside the hospital.
He or she saw a nurse that drop a baby on the floor.
The baby had a fracture and was crying for the pain but the nurse was not ready to accept the responsibility so she put the baby in the cot and moved on as nothing happened.
When the person who had the NDE and saw what happened from above (so to speak) came back to life
he or she inform the doctors who brought him-her back to life of the incident so the baby with the fracture could be look after.

Now you tell me how could the brain see what happen inside the hospital?
The brain doesn't but the consciousness can therefore it was the consciousness that took over once the brain was gone.  

Could you please provide evidence of this?

not that I don't believe you or anything.

[Redbeard The Pink]

Brain dead my arse:

Brain Dead?

Prikky, these people know nothing right?  What is this?  Is it a conspiracy to stop your world view?

Please Prikky, how do we explain this away?  We need your help

Didn't I say that LR give free tuition?
Here I am.


There are enough experiences to knock down your theory.
Let us talk about just one experience but there are many more.

One of this experience was about one person that after he or she die (I forgot about the sex)
in the emergency room of the hospital saw what was happening inside the hospital.
He or she saw a nurse that drop a baby on the floor.
The baby had a fracture and was crying for the pain but the nurse was not ready to accept the responsibility so she put the baby in the cot and moved on as nothing happened.
When the person who had the NDE and saw what happened from above (so to speak) came back to life
he or she inform the doctors who brought him-her back to life of the incident so the baby with the fracture could be look after.

Now you tell me how could the brain see what happen inside the hospital?
The brain doesn't but the consciousness can therefore it was the consciousness that took over once the brain was gone.  

Simple. It can't. That story isn't true.


Let's say it were, though. Somebody in a hospital has a dream about a dropped baby, and then it turns out that a baby turned up injured in the natal ward. There are any number of plausible, natural explanations that you'd have to parse out with Occam's Razor before moving on to "death magic."


First off, did they ever establish that the real-world baby was actually dropped by a nurse? What if the patient dreamed of a dropped baby, but the actual baby was injured by thrashing around in its crib or during its exit from the womb? That would make it seem like a coincidence, right?


Furthermore, what if the person who had the experience saw the natal ward, noticed one baby crying more than the others, didn't think anything of it at the time, but later had this dream out of unresolved concern for the crying baby?


These are the kinds of things you would need to be able to rule out before even trying to jump to your conclusion, and it doesn't sound like you have enough details to do that. This is the exact reason why documented events in controlled conditions are evidence while testimony (especially second or third hand) is not. Not only is your story practically impossible to verify, but even if it were true it wouldn't be evidence for what you're asserting because there isn't enough information here to suss out what actually happened, let alone why.

[Cecelia]

I'd consider many things. First I'd wonder if they were really theist all along. Perhaps someone like athrock who thought they could gain brownie points by claiming not to be a theist, and then slams us with their 'conversion'. I imagine the atheists here would consider the experience hallucinations themselves. My husband once told me when he was young, he thought he saw a ghost. At the time he was susceptible to believe that what he saw was in fact a ghost, and was absolutely real. He's a fairly reliable person, so he wouldn't make up such an experience. Now he believes that it was probably his imagination getting the best of him. He's not quick to believe that it was a ghost as much as he used to. He said that his belief was backed by his parents who told him that the ghost he saw was his great grandfather (he supposedly described what he looked like, despite never having seen him. This reinforced his belief that he saw a ghost. The problem is--as he later realized--his description was pretty non-descript. "Tall man with a beard" describes someone most people actually know. There's many tall men with beards)

I mean let's be honest here. If your priest had an NDE and said that he met with Vishnu, would you convert to Hinduism?

[Homeless Nutter]

I just want to remind everyone, that they're wasting their time, trying to reason with a crazy person. Despite all the arguments and evidence against his fantasy - Rik hasn't changed his mind about anything for as long as he's been here.

He is the embodiment of the Dunning–Kruger effect...

[Angrboda]

2. George Rodonaia's Verified Out-of-Body Perception of an Injured Infant


More information about George's NDE account is described in Dr. Melvin Morse and Paul Perry's book entitled Transformed by the Light. Dr. Morse refers to George by his Russian name "Yuri". The following is an excerpt of Transformed by the Light which describes George's observation of an infant while George is out of his body.

"[During Yuri's NDE, he] could go visit his family. He saw his grieving wife and their two sons, both too small to understand that their father had been killed."

"Then he visited his next-door neighbor. They had a new child, born a couple of days before Yuri's "death." Yuri could tell that they were upset by what happened to him. But they were especially distressed by the fact that their child would not stop crying.

"No matter what they did he continued to cry. When he slept it was short and fitful and then he would awaken, crying again. They had taken him back to the doctors but they were stumped. All the usual things such as colic were ruled out and they sent them home hoping the baby would eventually settle down.

"While there in this disembodied state, Yuri discovered something:

"l could talk to the baby. It was amazing. I could not talk to the parents - my friends - but I could talk to the little boy who had just been born. I asked him what was wrong. No words were exchanged, but I asked him maybe through telepathy what was wrong. He told me that his arm hurt. And when he told me that, I was able to see that the bone was twisted and broken."

"The baby had a greenstick fracture, a break in the bone in his arm probably cause by having been twisted during childbirth. Now Yuri and the baby knew what was wrong, but neither had the ability to communicate the problem to the parents.

"Eventually the doctor from Moscow came to perform the autopsy on Yuri. When they moved his body from the cabinet to a gurney, his eyes flickered. The doctor became suspicious and examined his eyes. When they responded to light, he was immediately wheeled to emergency surgery and saved.

"Yuri told his family about being "dead." No one believed him until he began to provide details about what he saw during his travels out of body. Then they became less skeptical. His diagnosis on the baby next door did the trick. He told of visiting them that night and of their concern over their new child. He told them that he had talked to the baby and discovered that he had a greenstick fracture of his arm. The parents took the child to a doctor and he x-rayed the arm only to discover that Yuri's very long-distance diagnosis was right."

http://www.near-death.com/science/eviden...-days.html

[Redbeard The Pink]

I am breaking a personal rule and expending a large number of magic points in an effort to contain this tiresome subject to one thread (again). Nutter, if you kill this thread and it leaks, so help me Zod I will curse the next six generations of your family with calamity and mosquito bites.

[Redbeard The Pink]

2. George Rodonaia's Verified Out-of-Body Perception of an Injured Infant


More information about George's NDE account is described in Dr. Melvin Morse and Paul Perry's book entitled Transformed by the Light. Dr. Morse refers to George by his Russian name "Yuri". The following is an excerpt of Transformed by the Light which describes George's observation of an infant while George is out of his body.

"[During Yuri's NDE, he] could go visit his family. He saw his grieving wife and their two sons, both too small to understand that their father had been killed."

"Then he visited his next-door neighbor. They had a new child, born a couple of days before Yuri's "death." Yuri could tell that they were upset by what happened to him. But they were especially distressed by the fact that their child would not stop crying.

"No matter what they did he continued to cry. When he slept it was short and fitful and then he would awaken, crying again. They had taken him back to the doctors but they were stumped. All the usual things such as colic were ruled out and they sent them home hoping the baby would eventually settle down.

"While there in this disembodied state, Yuri discovered something:

"l could talk to the baby. It was amazing. I could not talk to the parents - my friends - but I could talk to the little boy who had just been born. I asked him what was wrong. No words were exchanged, but I asked him maybe through telepathy what was wrong. He told me that his arm hurt. And when he told me that, I was able to see that the bone was twisted and broken."

"The baby had a greenstick fracture, a break in the bone in his arm probably cause by having been twisted during childbirth. Now Yuri and the baby knew what was wrong, but neither had the ability to communicate the problem to the parents.

"Eventually the doctor from Moscow came to perform the autopsy on Yuri. When they moved his body from the cabinet to a gurney, his eyes flickered. The doctor became suspicious and examined his eyes. When they responded to light, he was immediately wheeled to emergency surgery and saved.

"Yuri told his family about being "dead." No one believed him until he began to provide details about what he saw during his travels out of body. Then they became less skeptical. His diagnosis on the baby next door did the trick. He told of visiting them that night and of their concern over their new child. He told them that he had talked to the baby and discovered that he had a greenstick fracture of his arm. The parents took the child to a doctor and he x-rayed the arm only to discover that Yuri's very long-distance diagnosis was right."

http://www.near-death.com/science/eviden...-days.html

OK, there are now way more things wrong with this story. First off, the only surviving account of it seems to be in a book written by somebody who knows someone who had this experience, and clearly she believes things about it (and about NDEs in general) that would lead me to believe that she is probably not an objective observer concerning this subject (nor is this account more reliable than any other second hand, anecdotal evidence I might come across).


Furthermore, I again see no reason to believe that Yuri didn't have some other reason to have had a dream about a greenstick fracture plaguing his neighbor's baby, regardless of whether he was sleeping or in some kind of coma.


For instance, what if aliens saw (through their instruments) that the child had a fractured arm? These aliens wanted to save the child, but their society has strict rules about meddling in the affairs of lesser species, so they used their advanced technology to broadcast this cryptic dream to a coma patient who knows the family, then woke him up (again with their advanced technology) so he could relate this dream and save the child. Clearly, this vision is evidence of alien intervention in human affairs.