Archaeologists Find Athenian Naval Base

[account_inactive]

Very interesting, Min.

Thanks for sharing.

[abaris]

Hey, Abs.

I watched this tonight.  Right on point for what you are asking about.

That was the documentary that set me off on a journey to look for an actual book on these letters.

[Anomalocaris]

Min, have you by any chance read the letters from Vindolanda? It's not only the architacture and contraptions that make them seem close to us, but also their thoughts and how they communicated. It's much closer to us than anything i read from the middle ages.

Is that because of the comparatively high degree of literacy in the Roman army compared to any common segment of the Middle Ages, which facilitated the extensive and casual use of writing for mundane daily purposes in a way familiar to us?

[Minimalist]

That seems to be the idea although the depth of understanding is questionable.  Also it can't be discounted that some soldiers who served as 'company clerks' for want of a better word may have acted as scribes for their fellow soldiers.  Again, there is a difference even in Latin between the skills needed to write a letter saying "send me some socks" and being able to read and comprehend Frontinus' De Aqueducto, a report on the Roman water supply.

[abaris]

I have no idea on the literacy rate in the Middle Ages, but estimates for the Roman empire range between ten and twenty percent. That's actually not that impressive. I'm also not sure how important it was to be literate when signing up for the roman army or if there was any training offered after you joined up. You spent 25 years there after all before getting the honesta missio and a patch of land.

I guess the Middle Ages being different is down to many factors. At least in Western Europe the absence of solid social and political structures. Your immediate superiors were feudal lords, often only in posession of a couple of villages and you hardly ventured beyond that reign. And then there's the monopoly of the church when it came to knowledge and education. Things look of course differently in the East. Constantinople lasted till 1453, and we have a number of reports on how travellers from there looked down on the Western realms.

[Minimalist]

This letter, probably dictated by Charlesmagne to a church scribe, deals with the issue of illiteracy or semi-literacy even among the priesthood.  Charlesmagne himself, in spite of a deep seated desire to advance literacy, never seems to have managed it for himself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_litteris_colendis

The "Epistola de litteris colendis" is a well-known letter addressed by Emperor Charlemagne to Abbot Baugulf of Fulda, probably written sometimes in late 780s to 800s (decade), although the exact date is still debatable. The letter is a very important witness to the Carolingian educational reforms during the Carolingian Renaissance from late 8th century to 9th century. The letter shows Emperor Charlemagne's interest in promoting learning and education within his empire.[1]

In the letter, Charlemagne expresses his concern about the literacy of monks and priests, many of whom were illiterate or only partially literate. Charlemagne expresses concern that their poor literacy may lead them to make errors or interpret the bible and scriptures incorrectly.[1]

[Anomalocaris]

That seems to be the idea although the depth of understanding is questionable.  Also it can't be discounted that some soldiers who served as 'company clerks' for want of a better word may have acted as scribes for their fellow soldiers.  Again, there is a difference even in Latin between the skills needed to write a letter saying "send me some socks" and being able to read and comprehend Frontinus' De Aqueducto, a report on the Roman water supply.

I am under the impression that basic literacy, in the sense of a adaquate vocabulary to understand routine administration and the ability to pronounce words as they are written, was mandated for at least the legionaries, if not the auxiliaries, during the 1st and 2nd century AD.

[Banjo]

That seems to be the idea although the depth of understanding is questionable.  Also it can't be discounted that some soldiers who served as 'company clerks' for want of a better word may have acted as scribes for their fellow soldiers.  Again, there is a difference even in Latin between the skills needed to write a letter saying "send me some socks" and being able to read and comprehend Frontinus' De Aqueducto, a report on the Roman water supply.

I am under the impression that basic literacy, in the sense of a adaquate vocabulary to understand routine administration and the ability to pronounce words as they are written, was mandated for at least the legionaries during the 1st and 2nd century AD.

I read some thing recently that said they had found evidence the Greeks were writing long before we thought. Sadly I cannot remember where.

Thanks OP. That was very interesting.

[Minimalist]

Again, it makes sense because the whole idea was to keep the army busy at all times.  When they weren't fighting - and there were long stretches of peace on the various fronts - or drilling, they were building.  If there was nothing to build I can see commanders trying to encourage education of one type or another.

Remember, part of the appeal of a life in the legions ( or, I might add - the Auxillia) was that when your 25 years were up you got a piece of land to farm in a colony as a reward.  Those people were then expected to become solid citizens of that community.  The Roman army was a great civilizing force and it wasn't just because they built roads and bath houses.

I imagine that some people had more of an affinity for literacy than others but that is still true today, is it not?

[Banjo]

Again, it makes sense because the whole idea was to keep the army busy at all times.  When they weren't fighting - and there were long stretches of peace on the various fronts - or drilling, they were building.  If there was nothing to build I can see commanders trying to encourage education of one type or another.

Remember, part of the appeal of a life in the legions ( or, I might add - the Auxillia) was that when your 25 years were up you got a piece of land to farm in a colony as a reward.  Those people were then expected to become solid citizens of that community.  The Roman army was a great civilizing force and it wasn't just because they built roads and bath houses.

I imagine that some people had more of an affinity for literacy than others but that is still true today, is it not?

That was under Caesar but it did not last.