UK to leave EU

[SofaKingHigh]

@Sofa.  

Hardly, the EU isn't going to miss the UK anymore than we'd miss a single state.  The UK's perception of it's own importance in the grander scheme of things was and is entirely blown out of proportion.

We buy more German cars and more French cheese and wine than any other market in the world.  That isn't some kind of arrogant statement by an imperialist Brit.  It is a fact.

If they choose to punish us by withholding any trade talks, they will be doing themselves and the world at large as much damage as they will be doing us.

[SofaKingHigh]

@Sofa.  

Hardly, the EU isn't going to miss the UK anymore than we'd miss a single state.  The UK's perception of it's own importance in the grander scheme of things was and is entirely blown out of proportion.  It's undoubtedly in their interests to penalize the UK now, even if it wasn't before, and doing so will not penalize them in any meaningful way.

I do wish you could stop adding to your posts after I've replied...

OK, let's see how this plays out.......I'm willing to bet that you're dead wrong.

[abaris]

Personally, I think we will have a similar trade deal to Norway....which rather brilliantly for the frothy mouthed right wingers, will mean we will pay, pretty much, exactly what we do now to the EU, but we will also have to allow freedom of movement.

I'm thinking the same. Which pretty much means, the brexit vote was an excercise in futility. With the added fuckup of no longer having voice, vote or veto and you national politicians being at liberty to fuck the population without any regards to european workplace regulations.

[SofaKingHigh]

Personally, I think we will have a similar trade deal to Norway....which rather brilliantly for the frothy mouthed right wingers, will mean we will pay, pretty much, exactly what we do now to the EU, but we will also have to allow freedom of movement.

I'm thinking the same. Which pretty much means, the brexit vote was an excercise in futility. With the added fuckup of no longer having voice, vote or veto and you national politicians being at liberty to fuck the population without any regards to european workplace regulations.

You see, no it isn't.

I want the free market, the freedom of movement, but I want MY government to make the laws by which I'm governed and I have absolutely no desire to be a citizen of an EU superstate.

[The Grand Nudger]

Except that you don't get to make those laws...you don't even have a seat at that table now - which was precisely the point abaris made. The common market, free movement, that's their ball...and they can take their ball and go home when you don't play by their rules.

[abaris]

Except that you don't get to make those laws...you don't even have a seat at that table now - which was precisely the point abaris made.

Yes, it's put up and shut up for associated states. They subscribe to most of the EU regulations without having any say. And if they break the line, it's back to the negotiation table. This time round without the threat of leaving having any impact on the outcome.

[SofaKingHigh]

Except that you don't get to make those laws...you don't even have a seat at that table now - which was precisely the point abaris made.  The common market, free movement, that's their ball...and they can take their ball and go home when you don't play by their rules.

We will have a deal with the EU, at some point, that will allow for trade, and the movement of people.  Deals will be negotiated, terms agreed between the UK and the EU. 

These laws you speak of will no longer apply to the UK, so why would we want a voice in how they are made?

[The Grand Nudger]

Which, I think...was a miscalculation on the UKs part in the first place, looming the threat of an exit over negotiations.  They had more to lose than they could have gained.  Pull that shit over here and the guy across the table will call your bluff and lay his pistol on the felt...because somebodies about to go home with nothing but hurt feelings, and they better get their explanation ready for the wife.

[SofaKingHigh]

Which, I think...was a miscalculation on the UKs part in the first place, looming the threat of an exit over negotiations.  They had more to lose than they could have gained.  Pull that shit over here and the guy across the table will call your bluff and lay his pistol on the felt...because somebodies about to go home broke, and they better get their explanation ready for the wife.

This is one of the interesting parts of all of the criticism I've received from Americans, here and on other sites........if the US ever found themselves in a position where laws were being passed by an organisation outside of your own country, that governed parts of your everyday life....

How'd you think that vote would have gone?

[abaris]

These laws you speak of will no longer apply to the UK, so why would we want a voice in how they are made?

Because Norway, which you mentioned earlier, is an associated state. You are not - as of yet. If you go down the path of association, you will have to subscribe to the rules of the EU, without having a voice. If you don't, things will be very different and subject to negotiations whenever some new deal or law is up for debate. Same as the US with TTIP, to give just one example. And look how long this can take to come to any kind of result.

Also, comparing Switzerland, Norway or Iceland - all associated states - to the future of the UK, isn't possible for a simple reason. They never have been full members of the EU and built their economy accordingly. The UK on the other hand has been a member for the last 43 years. Which means there are many businesses and industries, not least of all the City of London, relying on that kind of relationship. That in itself is something to consider.