My father

[Lucifer]

I have left religion 3 years ago. It was a long and painful process, but now I reap the many benefits of it in terms of freedom of thinking and action, though this is still growing. There are some downsides though. My relationship with my father was never great, though we have tried to find each other through the years, but now that I no longer believe it seems like there is no way to repair it. He is very black and white in his thinking, he has been stuck with the same ideas for the last decades and I have seen very little change. He very often starts talking about religion (especially when he has drunk wine, which happens a lot in the evenings) and when he does he ALWAYS says exactly the same things. It becomes a very emotional laden discussion. Whenever I try to make a point, he always interupts me, or reacts strongly defensive, but he never listens; this is clear because his views and our conversations never evolve, they always follow the same path, even though I keep trying new ways to lead it in a new direction. I have tried saying that I don't want to talk about religion as well, but he just continues.

For me this is quite tough, in fact I feel like this is abusive to me, though he says that he really cares about me, and I believe him that he feels that way, but he does not take me serious at all and he has just been drinking during this moments. He has been struggling with depression for a long time and he does not take responsibilty for that, his way to solve it is to drink. I see that he is trying to connect with me, but it just makes things worse.

I fucking hate the influence of religion on our family. I am glad that I got out after 26 years, and so have my siblings, but it hurts me to think of all the life that I have lost and all of the relationships that have become so complicated because of religion. But on the other hand I want to treat my father as an adult, not just a victim of religion, and if I do that I must conclude that I have to shut him out of my life, because he has been abusing me emotionally for years, probably with a good intent from his perspective (to save me from hell), but still... why the drinking, why not listening to me.

Just wanted to share that, curious to read your thoughts. It is one of the hardest challenges in my life, I would like to have a good relationship with my father, but at the same time I can't change him and he needs to change, because I don't want to accept any further abuse. He is free to believe whatever he wants, but he should also let me do the same and respect my boundaries.

[Foxaèr]

You are correct. You cannot change him.

I disowned my father sixteen years ago.

He hasn't changed.

You need to think about you. That is your main priority, not your father.

[SteelCurtain]

Hello and welcome!

I'm really sorry to hear that you're experiencing trouble with your family. I'm having the same shit literally today after being 'out' to my family for 13 years.

You eventually have to be able to look past it and see the things you love about them, if that's possible.

[drfuzzy]

Ah, but Lucifer . . . the more you try to talk a religious person out of their beliefs, the more they dig in their heels.  (Some would say that we atheists do the same thing.)  We rely on logic and science and facts, and you would think that these things would cut through the religious brainwashing, but they don't.  The very fact that what they believe is not provable is one of the things that makes them hang on. The other point is that their entire concept of life and the world is rooted in their religion.  It sounds like he's struggling already, and to attack that base probably feels very threatening to him.
   On the up side, you still have him. You're still talking, he hasn't thrown you out.  (My parents disowned me.)  If I were in your position, I would simply refuse to engage him, and offer support. Let him ramble on about his delusions, pour a bit of water in his wine, and just try to show him that you care.  Don't take his refusal to consider changing his beliefs as abuse.

[robvalue]

Welcome to the forums, thanks for sharing your story

It makes me really sad how religion can drive a wedge between people, especially families. I'm very sorry for how it's caused a rift between you and your father.

You should have totally have the right not to talk about religion, and for him to keep hassling you is disgusting. I've had to cut my parents out of my life because they were emotionally abusive to me. You have to look after yourself, and this may mean issuing an ultimatum. If he wants a relationship with you, he has to stop hassling you about this. Of course, it depends what your financial situation is like and whether you'd be able to cope with the fallout.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Is he amenable to addressing his alcohol problem?

[Minimalist]

I would like to have a good relationship with my father

But what does he want?  Because that takes two and if he prefers his fairy tales to you then you are just going to have to write him off as a lost cause.  Make your own life.

[account_inactive]

You are correct.  You cannot change him.

I disowned my father sixteen years ago.

He hasn't changed.

You need to think about you.  That is your main priority, not your father.

That must have been hard..

[Foxaèr]

That must have been hard..

Maybe in the beginning, I can no longer remember.

It has been so long.

[brewer]

Welcome!

It's useless to argue with a drunk, when they are drunk. Even to have a sane discussion. Trust me, I know, I used to be one. Drunks don't like change, they are afraid of change. Fear is one of the motivating emotions in a drunk. I'm not surprised that, when drunk, he likes to talk about religion. It probably brings him comfort and a feeling of control. When drunk and he starts in with the religion talk just remove yourself from the situation. Change to subject to something neutral.

If an alcoholic I doubt you will have the power to change him. Forcing an alcoholic to stop drinking rarely works. He will have to want to change. You might have some luck convincing him to get help when he is hung over or going through withdrawal. The pain sometimes creates a moment of clarity.

Alcohol and depression is a double edged sword. Self medicating the depression with a drug that is a depressant. It becomes a vicious cycle/circle.

Good luck. Wishing you the best.