Atheists: Can You Still Accept X'n Friends?

[Czechlervitz30]

I am an atheist type 2. I do not like christian friends and i dont have many anymore. I live in a very christian area in my state in the USA. Since most everyone around is a christian or respects the idea of god I can't really run away from it. I did get rid of a lot of christian friends years ago. I stopped respecting the church years ago as well.

[Excited Penguin]

I probably should have specified that I don't have any close friends who are religious, nor do I want any, I don't think. I was trying to be provocative earlier, but it's not really about personal preference as it is just about who I am. I simply couldn't respect a theist enough on an intellectual level to form a deep friendship with him. With me, it's one of two ways. They're either dumber than me and know it, in which case it will be a guided deconversion, or they're smart enough on their own and are either quick to differentiate fantasy from reality by themselves, or I can simply talk over the finer points of religion with them and they get there on their own. I've basically deconverted a former best friend of mine in this way, just by having very long talks with him all day long. When I became an atheist, naturally we talked about it and my non-belief influenced him, though he is smart enough on his own. It is my impression that since we've fallen out he's helped others rationalize and scrutinize their beliefs in a similar manner.

[Lucifer]

I probably should have specified that I don't have any close friends who are religious, nor do I want any, I don't think. I was trying to be provocative earlier, but it's not really about personal preference as it is just about who I am. I simply couldn't respect a theist enough on an intellectual level to form a deep friendship with him. With me, it's one of two ways. They're either dumber than me and know it, in which case it will be a guided deconversion, or they're smart enough on their own and are either quick to differentiate fantasy from reality by themselves, or I can simply talk over the finer points of religion with them and they get there on their own. I've basically deconverted a former best friend of mine in this way, just by having very long talks with him all day long. When I became an atheist, naturally we talked about it and my non-belief influenced him, though he is smart enough on his own. It is my impression that since we've fallen out he's helped others rationalize and scrutinize their beliefs in a similar manner.

My two best friends are both christians and they are very intelligent. Both have MSc degrees and they have good careers in their field. Their christianity just does not affect that part of their lives, they seem to keep it separate. Christianity, to them, is more about being good and moral, about finding answers to some of the existential questions in life. They are people that I respect a lot, people with good character, people who care about the right things. I can talk with them about intellectual topics and this is never a problem. When I talk about religion with them, they are interested in finding out my reasoning and my experiences, because it is important for me. On my turn, I listen to them when they talk about religion, and I show interest in that, because it is important for their lives. We don't try to convince each other, but of course we influence each other.

Some other friends of me deconverted because of our conversations. That was their free choice, they were doubting their faith and had a need to find answers and I just told them my ideas and perspective. I did not pressure them in any way, I have no need to spread my ideas. I don't think it was just because of their intelligence that they were able to make this change, it was because they were curious to find answers to some questions and they were curious and disciplined enough to pursue them. Other people just don't have this need, perhaps because christianity "works" for them, that they get some benefits out of believing and that they don't have many downsides.

[Excited Penguin]

I probably should have specified that I don't have any close friends who are religious, nor do I want any, I don't think. I was trying to be provocative earlier, but it's not really about personal preference as it is just about who I am. I simply couldn't respect a theist enough on an intellectual level to form a deep friendship with him. With me, it's one of two ways. They're either dumber than me and know it, in which case it will be a guided deconversion, or they're smart enough on their own and are either quick to differentiate fantasy from reality by themselves, or I can simply talk over the finer points of religion with them and they get there on their own. I've basically deconverted a former best friend of mine in this way, just by having very long talks with him all day long. When I became an atheist, naturally we talked about it and my non-belief influenced him, though he is smart enough on his own. It is my impression that since we've fallen out he's helped others rationalize and scrutinize their beliefs in a similar manner.

My two best friends are both christians and they are very intelligent. Both have MSc degrees and they have good careers in their field. Their christianity just does not affect that part of their lives, they seem to keep it separate. Christianity, to them, is more about being good and moral, about finding answers to some of the existential questions in life. They are people that I respect a lot, people with good character, people who care about the right things. I can talk with them about intellectual topics and this is never a problem. When I talk about religion with them, they are interested in finding out my reasoning and my experiences, because it is important for me. On my turn, I listen to them when they talk about religion, and I show interest in that, because it is important for their lives. We don't try to convince each other, but of course we influence each other.

Some other friends of me deconverted because of our conversations. That was their free choice, they were doubting their faith and had a need to find answers and I just told them my ideas and perspective. I did not pressure them in any way, I have no need to spread my ideas. I don't think it was just because of their intelligence that they were able to make this change, it was because they were curious to find answers to some questions and they were curious and disciplined enough to pursue them. Other people just don't have this need, perhaps because christianity "works" for them, that they get some benefits out of believing and that they don't have many downsides.

I used the word smart concerning certain blatant forms of irrationality, like religion, so your point about their degrees and all that didn't really hit the spot. Anyway, I'm glad you can overlook it, but for me, a good friendship is about a certain amount of mutual respect, and I just can't bring myself to respect someone who can't see religion for what it is.

Religion isn't like any other topic. I wouldn't dream of not becoming friends with someone because of their political, philosophical, economical or artistic preferences and opinions. Religion is a bit too silly to compare it to any kind of knowledge out there. That's what it is, after all, it's silliness embodied with a bit of crazy on top. I don't think it's very controversial even to dislike religious people as a general rule, let alone not wish to become besties with them. How about they grow out of it instead of me enabling their dangerous fantasies.

[LivingNumbers6.626]

I'm a type 1 atheist I suppose. I don't have many good friends anyways, but I guess the ones I do have are either indifferent towards religion, secular, or they keep to themselves their faith. So it makes it quite easy for me. Other than that...if I did have outspoken christian friends it would be short lived as we would have nothing in common.

[Detachable]

Thanks for all your comments. I think a couple of issues have been illuminated.

First, let's talk about the different kinds of relationships. There are strangers, acquaintances, co-workers, relatives, significant others, etc. Another category is "friends." Within this category we may have distant friends and close friends. (Social networking has introduced another type of "friend" which, to me, is different from the conventional use of the word.)
So, when I say "friend," I mean someone I choose to associate with, or spend time with, because we have common interests and/or we feel mutual admiration and enjoyment. My definition of "friend" does not include acquaintances, co-workers, or even relatives who I simply happen to spend time around in different settings.

Now to talk about my ability to be friends with believers. First, of course, since the majority of the world's population are "believers" of one degree or another, it would be difficult and impractical to have no interaction with them. Myself, I have no difficulty being civil, polite and "friendly" with strangers and acquaintances (for example), many of whom are undoubtedly believers. I can and do even enjoy such interaction.

"Lucifer" wrote:
"Religion isn't like any other topic. I wouldn't dream of not becoming friends with someone because of their political, philosophical, economical or artistic preferences and opinions."

Agreed. I can "agree to disagree," and even engage in heated arguments with friends over subjects as potentially controversial as sexual lifestyle, socialism or musical trends. As long as someone can accept that I don't like a certain kind of music, for example, I can accept their right to enjoy it (just don't force me to listen to it).
Religion holds itself up as different, in that "one is not supposed to question it: it is beyond discussion." Being based on faith, instead of evidence, it is "off limits," despite the tremendous ramifications it has on personal and global life.
People who like rap music, for example, will not lay a trip on me that my non-appreciation of rap will condemn me to hell. They will (I believe), not tell me that rap music represents Ultimate Truth. Their appreciation of rap does not imply a belief in a divinely inspired "Rap Bible," which includes passages detailing how the rap-disinterested should be stoned or shunned.

9/11 was not caused by terrorists, it was caused by religion. The world can no longer tolerate the intolerance of *inherently divisive* supernatural beliefs like religion.

Choosing a religion is not a decision without ramifications. It is a holdover from the pre-scientific world that humans can no longer afford to ignore.

Excited Penguin
"I simply couldn't respect a theist enough on an intellectual level to form a deep friendship with him."

Yes.

As the well-know atheist Sam Harris (and others), has said, one of the most dangerous aspects of the modern world is the apathy with which many otherwise well meaning people view religion. In an effort to not shake the boat, be easy-going and to create "good feelings" with others, they don't stand up and talk back to point out the hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty of those who condone religion.

Whateverist the White
"It just ain't that big a thang."

I disagree; it is a big thang. ;-)

Finally, if you haven't, I urge you to watch this TED Talk by R. Dawkins. As I said in my other thread, it's titled "Militant Atheism," but I think that was mainly to get a laugh (since TED Talks are supposed to be entertaining). There is a sense in which "militant" can mean "activist," however (my preferred label).

https://youtu.be/VxGMqKCcN6A

—DP

[Bob Kelso]

As long as they aren't a massive twat about it I don't mind belief, hell, my best friend is a Christian.

[MJ the Skeptical]

The question is quite tribalist if you ask me and goes against everything I think of when it comes to being anti-theist or atheist etc. which is not to fall into dogmatic and tribalistic thinking. Of course you can make friends with people of all ideologies. Will you get along with people who mostly agree with you? Probably, but as far as our everyday lives, most of our friends and family are already theists so the question itself is quite stupid unless you just cut out everyone religious in your life. I personally chose to associate myself with people who agree with some of the core tenants I believe, but most people would believe most of them anyway. People seem very fickle and must have everyone in their life be their echo-chamber otherwise it's time to cut ties, it's pretty child-like, us vs. them, all or nothing behavior when it comes to other people.

[The Viking]

I tolerate my christian friends, because they are ultimately good people.

They cannot see that they are amazing people because of themselves, and see their gifts as being god-given.

I try to tell them that they are good people, because they are beautiful people and they have immense power themselves, but they can't see it.

I won't abandon them to such ridiculousness...

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Of course I can.  Most of my friends are believers of one sort or another.

Boru

Do you ever discuss religion with them?

Occasionally, of course. They're my friends first and religionists second (from my perspective, at least). Over the years, I've had several people break off friendships when they discovered I'm an atheist. *shrug* Not people that should have been friends to begin with.

Boru