Bernie Having Some Fun

[Chad32]

Yeah, that money needs to go to rich corporations, and the war effort.

Yeah, because straw men are easy to erect.

Maybe that is a bit of a false dichotomy, but I just don't see how people can complain about their tax dollars going to healthcare and education. Or complain about the minimum wage going up, and taxing the rich. This is Bernie's platform. If this is socialism, then where's the problem?

[Tiberius]

Honest question: how do you think private health insurance works?

Honest answer: I think it lines politicians pockets with money that's supposed to be for medical care.

I'm not talking about "insurance". I'm talking about paying for my own medical costs.

Like if I go to the ER I don't pay $1,000 per hour for the room, to subsidize the failed insurance system. I pay a fair rate per hour plus legitimate costs for MY visit. If I run up a $10,000 tab, I pay the $10,000.

Ok, but what if someone doesn't have $10,000 to spare? What if them being in hospital isn't their fault? What if they are born with a condition which means they have to have expensive treatment in order to live, and they are born into an average American family who cannot afford that treatment?

The point of having health insurance, whether it is private, or through the government, is that it is mutually beneficial to all involved. The person paying the premiums or taxes has a safety net if they ever fall ill. The insurance company / government is able to pay for expensive medical treatments by using the premiums of people who don't need medical help. It's a win-win situation for everyone.

The benefit of government insurance / universal healthcare is that the government doesn't have to worry about profits, and thus they can pay for treatments which private insurers might try to fight. As a single entity, they would also have more power to negotiate medical expenses, meaning that $1000 an hour cost of a room at a hospital would be reduced down to a realistic figure.

[The Grand Nudger]

That last one, Tibs, is a subtlety that probably goes by unnoticed by people who haven't had the displeasure of trying to negotiate with our government over money, lol.  When it comes to those guys, you take what they'll pay you and smile, or else, lol.

[Tiberius]

That last one, Tibs, is a subtlety that probably goes by unnoticed by people who haven't had the displeasure of trying to negotiate with our government over money, lol.  When it comes to those guys, you take what they'll pay you and smile, or else, lol.

Agreed, but in this instance the hospitals would have some negotiating power as ultimately they hold a lot of the cards. This would likely be short to medium term though, as full universal healthcare would involve the government owning / controlling the hospitals as well. That's not something that can happen overnight.

[The Grand Nudger]

How long did it take the UK to transition, for reference? Apparently (just looked this up...) 2/3rds of urban hospitals are already non-profit. Sounds like a running start. They're closing at a fair chop, though.

[Tiberius]

I'm not sure how long it took. I believe at first hospitals were still private, but were effectively administered by the government, and most doctors were independent contractors rather than employees. Over time the government started building their own hospitals, probably bought a few of the private ones, and of course employed medical staff. A lot of hospitals are run by "NHS Trusts" which are effectively independent organisations that are funded by the government, but aren't administered by them, though they have to adhere to a certain standard of care.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Surely you can see how criticizing a criticism of Trump might appear to be defending Trump, no?

I didn't criticize his criticism - I criticized him.

He's just venting - I understand.

[Emphasis added -- Thump]

[The Grand Nudger]

That's how our current non-profits are set up.  Effectively rfunded the the gov but not admined.  In light of that, I think that a transition could happen at a pretty aggressive pace, if we decide to do that before they all close down, lol.

[Losty]

Most of our doctors are also independent contractors rather than employees but it just means I have to pay the hospital and the doctors separately

[Joods]

Honest answer: I think it lines politicians pockets with money that's supposed to be for medical care.

I'm not talking about "insurance". I'm talking about paying for my own medical costs.

Like if I go to the ER I don't pay $1,000 per hour for the room, to subsidize the failed insurance system. I pay a fair rate per hour plus legitimate costs for MY visit. If I run up a $10,000 tab, I pay the $10,000.

Ok, but what if someone doesn't have $10,000 to spare? What if them being in hospital isn't their fault? What if they are born with a condition which means they have to have expensive treatment in order to live, and they are born into an average American family who cannot afford that treatment?

The point of having health insurance, whether it is private, or through the government, is that it is mutually beneficial to all involved. The person paying the premiums or taxes has a safety net if they ever fall ill. The insurance company / government is able to pay for expensive medical treatments by using the premiums of people who don't need medical help. It's a win-win situation for everyone.

The benefit of government insurance / universal healthcare is that the government doesn't have to worry about profits, and thus they can pay for treatments which private insurers might try to fight. As a single entity, they would also have more power to negotiate medical expenses, meaning that $1000 an hour cost of a room at a hospital would be reduced down to a realistic figure.

So much this. When my oldest was born, she had a Duodenal Atresia that needed operating on as soon as they stabilized her. She got that surgery at 11 hours old. She was in the NICU for 26 days. The hospital stay alone (just to lay in an incubator), cost over $900 per day. That's not including all the other stuff like surgery, two platelet transfusions, medical supplies, doctor visits etc.

When she was four months old, she got open heart surgery. That bill came to $158,000. Just for the surgery.

I wasn't able to return to work because of her extensive medical issues and her father had bailed out on me when I was still pregnant with her.
I was grateful for what insurance I did have because without it, I would have had no way of taking care of my daughter, who didn't deserve to be denied the right to medical care for being born with lots of medical problems that, clearly, weren't her fault.