Personal experience

[DiRNiS]

But the FSM is real. I know this through personal experience!

I have been touched and blessed by His Noodly Appendage.

See?


And I'll bet the FSM never told you to kill anyone...let alone your own kid!

No, because the FSM is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent but overall He is benevolent and would never tell me to sacrifice my own kid to prove my faith. That's only for jealous and barbaric gods.

In all seriousness though, nobody should count "personal experience" as proof of anything. At least not scientific evidence. Personal experience is not evidence of anything to anyone but yourself and religious people use it because they have no other means of backing up their faith.

[tackattack]

@KN.. discworld... awesome reference +1

@min- you can assume all you want about the level of tolerance I show for other views. I don't call anyone stupid for believing whatever they believe, regardless of my personal opinions on the matter. It comes down to a matter or mutual, basic human respect and tolerance. If you wnt to make me into a bigoted and hypocritical fundie you're more than welcome to, as this isn't reality, however I think my words on here have spoken counter to that.

[Minimalist]

Nice speech but the reality with all theists is something different.

You only have room for your own 'god.'

[The Omnissiunt One]

Apprehension of a lack of a deity may not be possible, but Buddhists claim to experience the dissolution of the self into nothingness. This runs directly contrary to the experiences of theistic religions, and must surely be taken just as seriously.

[Captain Scarlet]

Apprehension of a lack of a deity may not be possible, but Buddhists claim to experience the dissolution of the self into nothingness. This runs directly contrary to the experiences of theistic religions, and must surely be taken just as seriously.

I disagree that atheists cannot have experiences at least as valid. If someone can directly experience joy by connecting with the divine, atheists can directly experience calmness associated with apprehension of gods non existence. There is no logical flaw in that.

I agree with your other points.

The basic point of this thread is if you allow personal experience for one you have to allow it for all and leave yourself nowhere in providing evidence for god.

[The Omnissiunt One]

Whilst I agree with the basic principle of what you're saying, I also agree with tackattack that you can't experience an absence of something. To say that we can seems to be of the same kind of vague, meaningless, metaphysical mumbo-jumbo as religious experience. It's unclear how we could perceive such a thing.

[Edwardo Piet]

To "experience nothing" isn't to experience anything, hence it isn't an experience.

[Captain Scarlet]

Whilst I agree with the basic principle of what you're saying, I also agree with tackattack that you can't experience an absence of something. To say that we can seems to be of the same kind of vague, meaningless, metaphysical mumbo-jumbo as religious experience. It's unclear how we could perceive such a thing.

I dont say it counts as evidence, I agree that all varieties of it are meaningless. Still I would argue you can experience an absence as examples I have given testify too and as those who lose someone close to them would also claim.

[tackattack]

Experiencing calmness, an "evaporation of self" or "dissolving into nothingness", or a sense of longing to be complete.. all of those are actual experiences and absolutely fine.. I fully acknowledge them as indicative experiences. EvF put my sentiments most succinctly though on nothingness.

[theVOID]

@Omnissiunt: That's not true, i can experience what it is like to not have a chair under my ass. That is the experience of the absence of chair.