Is there a right way to romantically connect with others?

[Arkilogue]

Agreed but the assumption is institutionalized and commercialized, what chances do kids have?  Throw entitlement culture on top of that and no wonder we have men going their own way.

Have you seen the commercials lately?  The husband is a dumb slave to be mocked and emasculated.

I don't mind being mocked and emasculated by women under certain conditions and in certain situations. In fact I might even like it sometimes.

But certainly this can go too far, I agree with that.

They might even like doing that to you, but they probably won't respect you. But I'm not talking about woman emasculating men, I'm talking about advertisers.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-reasons-co...ainst-men/

A very common stock character who's attracted a bit of attention lately is the "dumb dad." You may already know what I'm talking about, but if you've been skipping television ads for the last several years using the Power of Technology, I'll explain. These ads typically feature a dad or husband figure blundering around the house, seeming baffled by basic human activities. Here's a typical example, where some idiot gets confused by the idea of flavored yogurt:

Individually, these ads are pretty harmless, even vaguely funny. It's just a depiction of a single idiot, not a commentary on all men everywhere, right? But in aggregate, when taking all the "dumb dad" ads that air every day into consideration, it becomes harder to ignore. Because make no mistake, this trope is incredibly common, and in its worst forms can get pretty insulting.

Earlier this year, Huggies released a series of ads that essentially stated that their diapers were so reliable, you could put them on a baby and leave them alone with dad for a few hours, and shit wouldn't spray out everywhere. "The Ultimate Test for Diapers: Negligent Dads."

---

Here's a gem....

[bennyboy]

I don't think polyamory is ethical, because I still believe (shoot me, I already know what you fuckers are going to say about this) that at the core, heterosexual relationships are about babies. Yeah, fuck you, I said it, don't start with me.

The ethics of sexuality are largely to do with what happens at the point of pregnancy. In a polyamorous relationship, pregnancy likely means that the woman will no longer get to be anything-androus. Since she's lacking the bonded understanding of a monogamous couple, she's going to have a hard time convincing the man that he suddenly needs to commit to helping her build a nest and raising a child.

The other issue is the reproductive life cycle. It's easy to talk a 20 year-old girl into thinking she'll never ever want a baby. But fast forward about 9 years, and there's going to be a real dissonance-- she's very likely to start wondering about reproducing, whereas for a man-- well, he's still got about 40 years to think about it.

[Arkilogue]

I don't think polyamory is ethical, because I still believe (shoot me, I already know what you fuckers are going to say about this) that at the core, heterosexual relationships are about babies.  Yeah, fuck you, I said it, don't start with me.

The ethics of sexuality are largely to do with what happens at the point of pregnancy.  In a polyamorous relationship, pregnancy likely means that the woman will no longer get to be anything-androus.  Since she's lacking the bonded understanding of a monogamous couple, she's going to have a hard time convincing the man that he suddenly needs to commit to helping her build a nest and raising a child.

The other issue is the reproductive life cycle.  It's easy to talk a 20 year-old girl into thinking she'll never ever want a baby.  But fast forward about 9 years, and there's going to be a real dissonance-- she's very likely to start wondering about reproducing, whereas for a man-- well, he's still got about 40 years to think about it.

So the Bonobo's are doing it wrong?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/07/opinions/m...os-safina/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sex...ve-and-sex

[Excited Penguin]

I don't mind being mocked and emasculated by women under certain conditions and in certain situations. In fact I might even like it sometimes.

But certainly this can go too far, I agree with that.

They might even like doing that to you, but they probably won't respect you.  But I'm not talking about woman emasculating men, I'm talking about advertisers.

http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-reasons-co...ainst-men/

A very common stock character who's attracted a bit of attention lately is the "dumb dad." You may already know what I'm talking about, but if you've been skipping television ads for the last several years using the Power of Technology, I'll explain. These ads typically feature a dad or husband figure blundering around the house, seeming baffled by basic human activities. Here's a typical example, where some idiot gets confused by the idea of flavored yogurt:

Individually, these ads are pretty harmless, even vaguely funny. It's just a depiction of a single idiot, not a commentary on all men everywhere, right? But in aggregate, when taking all the "dumb dad" ads that air every day into consideration, it becomes harder to ignore. Because make no mistake, this trope is incredibly common, and in its worst forms can get pretty insulting.

Earlier this year, Huggies released a series of ads that essentially stated that their diapers were so reliable, you could put them on a baby and leave them alone with dad for a few hours, and shit wouldn't spray out everywhere. "The Ultimate Test for Diapers: Negligent Dads."

---

Here's a gem....

It doesn't have to be so black and white. This can be fun if it's done right. No one has to lose respect for anyone else, it's just being playful. Some chicks are naturally like that, others are the opposite. There are all sorts of people and tastes, I pride myself in being able to appreciate both sides of the spectrum on this, even though I prefer the side where I'm in control.

You make some good points about the attack on men. It gets ridiculous sometimes and it can be pretty upsetting. I mean women can take this too far if no one points out any limits. But that's also true of men, so it's not a sexist thing to say. Women are just people after all, and people can be nasty sometimes.

I know we were talking about culture, but I think it's pertinent to touch on individuals as well.

[paulpablo]

I don't think polyamory is ethical, because I still believe (shoot me, I already know what you fuckers are going to say about this) that at the core, heterosexual relationships are about babies.  Yeah, fuck you, I said it, don't start with me.

The ethics of sexuality are largely to do with what happens at the point of pregnancy.  In a polyamorous relationship, pregnancy likely means that the woman will no longer get to be anything-androus.  Since she's lacking the bonded understanding of a monogamous couple, she's going to have a hard time convincing the man that he suddenly needs to commit to helping her build a nest and raising a child.

The other issue is the reproductive life cycle.  It's easy to talk a 20 year-old girl into thinking she'll never ever want a baby.  But fast forward about 9 years, and there's going to be a real dissonance-- she's very likely to start wondering about reproducing, whereas for a man-- well, he's still got about 40 years to think about it.

So the Bonobo's are doing it wrong?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/07/opinions/m...os-safina/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sex...ve-and-sex

What's morally right for a bonobo, in my opinion, isn't necessarily right for a human being.

So the question is are they doing it wrong?  

In their society sex with infants is common.  The male has no guarantee that the baby is his and doesn't participate in raising the child at all.

It seems that their path of evolution has made this behavior the best that works for them, their bodies seem to be geared towards using sex as basically their version of a handshake or some form of casual comfort.

In human society the standard trend seems to be that fathers want to look after their own children.  And that there's a taboo on sex with children possibly related to the fact that in most human cultures sex is seen as something more signficant than a handshake or a pat on the back to comfort someone.


From what I can gather in our society, fathers doing nothing to raise their children and sex with infants only seems to have bad outcomes for our species.

That's just my guess, you could go back in time and somehow coerse the human species to adopt bonobo culture from the dawn of humanity and it might result in something amazing, my guess is though that our behaviors suit our psychology and biology.

[Excited Penguin]

Not condoning absent fathers or sex with infants here, but the kind of mentality that treats sex like it's nothing sounds great to me. I think an incredible amount of bad things come from the kind of taboo some cultures place around sex.

[Arkilogue]

So the Bonobo's are doing it wrong?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/07/opinions/m...os-safina/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sex...ve-and-sex

What's morally right for a bonobo, in my opinion, isn't necessarily right for a human being.

So the question is are they doing it wrong?  

In their society sex with infants is common.  The male has no guarantee that the baby is his and doesn't participate in raising the child at all.

It seems that their path of evolution has made this behavior the best that works for them, their bodies seem to be geared towards using sex as basically their version of a handshake or some form of casual comfort.

In human society the standard trend seems to be that fathers want to look after their own children.  And that there's a taboo on sex with children possibly related to the fact that in most human cultures sex is seen as something more signficant than a handshake or a pat on the back to comfort someone.


From what I can gather in our society, fathers doing nothing to raise their children and sex with infants only seems to have bad outcomes for our species.

That's just my guess, you could go back in time and somehow coerse the human species to adopt bonobo culture from the dawn of humanity and it might result in something amazing, my guess is though that our behaviors suit our psychology and biology.

Do they have morals? Do they think "I really want to take the food from the other ape but it's morally wrong so I won't"? Certainly they learn pleasure/pain responses but do they cognitively self inhibit actions they would otherwise do because they would feel like a bad ape?

Ignoring the strawinfant, do you think sex between consenting adults who are not married to be morally wrong?

[paulpablo]

Not condoning absent fathers or sex with infants here, but the kind of mentality that treats sex like it's nothing sounds great to me. I think an incredible amount of bad things come from the kind of taboo some cultures place around sex.

I think a lot of good comes from those taboos.

Let me talk about this in terms of peaches instead of sex or sexual body parts.

Lets say I live in a society where peaches are pretty taboo, it's not a huge taboo but you don't go round rubbing peaches on people in public.
In this society I crave peaches and the idea of going to some society where they're rubbing peaches all around sounds great.

But if you lived in the peach rubbing society after 10 or 20 years I'm pretty sure the craving would be obliterated and instead you'd be thinking ok can you stop rubbing your peaches all over me everytime meet, it's getting annoying.

I like the fact that some of the things I like are taboo.

It's kind of like the difference between skipping school classes /  Never going to school or work ever and not doing much with your life.

One feels great and thrilling the other is depressing.  The abundance of something you like can be depressing.

[paulpablo]

What's morally right for a bonobo, in my opinion, isn't necessarily right for a human being.

So the question is are they doing it wrong?  

In their society sex with infants is common.  The male has no guarantee that the baby is his and doesn't participate in raising the child at all.

It seems that their path of evolution has made this behavior the best that works for them, their bodies seem to be geared towards using sex as basically their version of a handshake or some form of casual comfort.

In human society the standard trend seems to be that fathers want to look after their own children.  And that there's a taboo on sex with children possibly related to the fact that in most human cultures sex is seen as something more signficant than a handshake or a pat on the back to comfort someone.


From what I can gather in our society, fathers doing nothing to raise their children and sex with infants only seems to have bad outcomes for our species.

That's just my guess, you could go back in time and somehow coerse the human species to adopt bonobo culture from the dawn of humanity and it might result in something amazing, my guess is though that our behaviors suit our psychology and biology.

Do they have morals? Do they think "I really want to take the food from the other ape but it's morally wrong so I won't"? Certainly they learn pleasure/pain responses but do they cognitively self inhibit actions they would otherwise do because they would feel like a bad ape?

Ignoring the strawinfant, do you think sex between consenting adults who are not married to be morally wrong?

What's the strawinfant and why are you ignoring it?

I'm basically saying this thread is about humans I'm guessing. You're asking are bonobos doing it wrong and presenting links with titles about how we can learn from bonobos.

I don't think we would be behaving morally correctly by adopting bonobo behavior.

[Arkilogue]

Do they have morals? Do they think "I really want to take the food from the other ape but it's morally wrong so I won't"? Certainly they learn pleasure/pain responses but do they cognitively self inhibit actions they would otherwise do because they would feel like a bad ape?

Ignoring the strawinfant, do you think sex between consenting adults who are not married to be morally wrong?

What's the strawinfant and why are you ignoring it?

Perhaps cherry picking would have been a more appropriate description.

Bonobo's don't have a penal code nor prisons and sex between consenting human adults in private is not illegal in most places, sex with an infant is.

Infant rape is already happening in highly sexualized cultures like South Africa and sexually repressive cultures like India.

---

Do they have morals? Do they think "I really want to take the food from the other ape but it's morally wrong so I won't"? Certainly they learn pleasure/pain responses but do they cognitively self inhibit actions they would otherwise do because they would feel like a bad ape?

Ignoring the strawinfant, do you think sex between consenting adults who are not married to be morally wrong?

What's the strawinfant and why are you ignoring it?

I'm basically saying this thread is about humans I'm guessing.  You're asking are bonobos doing it wrong and presenting links with titles about how we can learn from bonobos.

I don't think we would be behaving morally correctly by adopting bonobo behavior.

I wasn't suggesting a whole sale culture swap.
And did you read the articles?