Ethics question for theists - serious - looking for opinions not argument.

[Drich]

Greetings to the collective brain.  Atheists are welcome to chime in on this . . . but I'm really looking for Christian responses.  I have a lot of Christian (mostly Catholic) friends, but I can't ask them, because they know the area churches and would know who I'm talking about.
     For background, I'm a lesbian.  (And an atheist.)  I play the organ for Catholic Mass once a week.  I think I'm a rare example of my breed - I told the music director and the priest about my orientation.  Before you think I'm bragging, I have NOT told the choir members.  I know that many of them would be outraged.  But I need the $$.

I have a female friend who is married to a woman.  This person gets hired to do religious retreats in churches.  She travels the country doing these retreats.  She brings a male assistant to these retreats and introduces him as her husband.  (He's gay.)  

Another friend of ours asked me yesterday if somebody shouldn't tell the churches that _____ is a lesbian.  I replied that the question made me very nervous, because if the choir knew about me, I could be fired.  I asked if she had some problem with homosexuals in the church, and she said no - but she has a problem with homosexuals that lie about their orientation and then get paid (and paid well) to lead religious retreats.  She said that the comments people made at these retreats - about how the leader is so "wonderfully spiritual and clearly inspired" and how "it's great to see a husband and wife team so dedicated to the Lord" just make her sick.

Well, I haven't told the choir folks about my orientation, and yes, I get paid, and yes, they think I'm spiritual and worshipful and blessed.  I don't correct them.  I didn't know how to respond to this person, other than to beg her not to do anything.

Thoughts?  Should somebody "out" my friend, who makes a living leading religious retreats while lying about her home life?  Should I quit playing for church?  (I probably should find another source of additional income, I know.  But I love some of these people.  I'm not a believer, but the music is fun.)

-- Fuzz

Ask the woman to put her feelings aside and pray about it look for guidance through the scripture and see if she can find an example of someone simply outting someone else for so sin or issue they have against them.

In reality the prevailing attitude for any Christian should be to go the the 'offending' brother and confront him with his sin. If he does nothing then go to an elder or deacon and have them come with you to address the issue. Now if they like your director do not have an issue with them then the matter is settled.

Mat
15 “If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18 Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed[f] in heaven. 19 Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

[Drich]

To the other half of this issue/your gay friend to share with the nosy Nellie some of the reasons she chooses to work planning church related events (some reasons past the money) to maybe share how the church influence is helping her to ____________. and this somehow leaves the door open to ____________... The idea to do remove the idea Nelli has that gay people are preying on the church. To put your friend on the level with anyone else seeking fellowship from the church.

[drfuzzy]

To the other half of this issue/your gay friend to share with the nosy Nellie some of the reasons she chooses to work planning church related events (some reasons past the money) to maybe share how the church influence is helping her to ____________. and this somehow leaves the door open to ____________... The idea to do remove the idea Nelli has that gay people are preying on the church. To put your friend on the level with anyone else seeking fellowship from the church.

Drich - we don't often agree.  It's heartening to see that we can.  Thank you for your thoughtful and caring responses.

[RoadRunner79]

---

Greetings to the collective brain.  Atheists are welcome to chime in on this . . . but I'm really looking for Christian responses.  I have a lot of Christian (mostly Catholic) friends, but I can't ask them, because they know the area churches and would know who I'm talking about.
     For background, I'm a lesbian.  (And an atheist.)  I play the organ for Catholic Mass once a week.  I think I'm a rare example of my breed - I told the music director and the priest about my orientation.  Before you think I'm bragging, I have NOT told the choir members.  I know that many of them would be outraged.  But I need the $$.

I have a female friend who is married to a woman.  This person gets hired to do religious retreats in churches.  She travels the country doing these retreats.  She brings a male assistant to these retreats and introduces him as her husband.  (He's gay.)  

Another friend of ours asked me yesterday if somebody shouldn't tell the churches that _____ is a lesbian.  I replied that the question made me very nervous, because if the choir knew about me, I could be fired.  I asked if she had some problem with homosexuals in the church, and she said no - but she has a problem with homosexuals that lie about their orientation and then get paid (and paid well) to lead religious retreats.  She said that the comments people made at these retreats - about how the leader is so "wonderfully spiritual and clearly inspired" and how "it's great to see a husband and wife team so dedicated to the Lord" just make her sick.

Well, I haven't told the choir folks about my orientation, and yes, I get paid, and yes, they think I'm spiritual and worshipful and blessed.  I don't correct them.  I didn't know how to respond to this person, other than to beg her not to do anything.

Thoughts?  Should somebody "out" my friend, who makes a living leading religious retreats while lying about her home life?  Should I quit playing for church?  (I probably should find another source of additional income, I know.  But I love some of these people.  I'm not a believer, but the music is fun.)

-- Fuzz

---

I would agree with the others. Lying I think; is where the ethical line is drawn. I do think that it is to be applauded that you where open with the priest, and the music director. I don't think that playing during the service, makes any requirements on what you believe, nor that you have any need to announce it to everyone. In fact if you where openly overt about it, I may think a little different (as to your motivations).

I do think that for someone leading a retreat, that things may be a little different, and what they believe may be of more note. But certainly lying about a husband I believe is crossing a line (I don't know that the money or how much is any concern).

I can somewhat understand your friends thinking in this particular circumstance. And on the other hand, I also lean towards those who say, that it is none of my business. I think that the question that needs to be asked of ones self (as honestly as is possible) is why? If it is for self (to be seen) or if it is because you wish to harm to the other person, then perhaps they should look at their motivations first. Christianity has never looked well upon gossip either.

[Drich]

To the other half of this issue/your gay friend to share with the nosy Nellie some of the reasons she chooses to work planning church related events (some reasons past the money) to maybe share how the church influence is helping her to ____________. and this somehow leaves the door open to ____________... The idea to do remove the idea Nelli has that gay people are preying on the church. To put your friend on the level with anyone else seeking fellowship from the church.

Drich - we don't often agree.  It's heartening to see that we can.  Thank you for your thoughtful and caring responses.

Despite what many think, my objectives here are always to provide truth and clarity concerning God and now for the church. Most of the time this clarity steps on people's feelings, and other times it supports and helps people out. I would always like to help people out and leave them with what they want to hear, but the thing is I can't. I have a greater responsibility to the truth found in scripture, and must follow that where ever it may lead me. Meaning when asked the general baited question this forum is built one, If I am to answer I must take the bait.

Because My only loyalty is to God, not to principles, philosophies or even religion. In this matter He has left a provision for your friend, and an opportunity for those in that church to do the right thing. (not to say that they will or will not.) It's just the opportunity has been given to each of you and I am glad I was used to point it out.

[drfuzzy]

Update:
Well, as a young cousin of mine says, "Sh*t's about to get real up in here."   
D___, the judgmental offended friend, came up to the organ loft and announced that she had made a decision - she is going to write the retreat leader and ask why the "handsome hubby" is shown on another website at  gay rights event, posing with his partner.  And why she found the retreat leader's picture on a school page, posing with another woman and the other women's kids, named as "co-parent" to those kids.  (sigh)  She said she was giving me one more chance to "spill the beans".  I didn't.  I just told her to do what she felt was right, and that their home life was none of my business.
   Secrets are hard to keep these days.  See, D____ was all fired up about the retreat she attended.  When she learned that I had once traveled with this group, she just wouldn't leave me alone.  She was following me around, asking all sorts of questions about how she could get hired to work with them.  (She had written them more than once, and they kept telling her that they had no openings at this time.)  I kept putting her off - I wasn't "hired", I was just a friend who was asked to help out on occasion, chosen for my piano and organ church music skills.  -- And I stopped working with them years ago. So I had no clue on how to get "in".  But D____ wouldn't take my vague answers and started doing her own research.
     I sent an e-mail to the retreat leader, to warn her, as soon as I got home.

No response yet.

[Catholic_Lady]

How unfortunate that she decided to go in that direction. I hope everything turns out the best way it can for everyone involved. Keep us updated.

[brewer]

This may turn out to be an interesting/disturbing ride. Keep your seat belt fastened. I sincerely hope that you are not collateral damage.

Please keep us updated.

[Losty]

I can't stand this attitude of people who meddle in other people's lives. Theist or atheist or deist or whateverist (ha I finally get your name), just mind your own damn business. Bah. I hope she changes her mind and doesn't tell anyone.

[drfuzzy]

Whew.  Tired from a long phone call from retreat leader friend.

She was mad at EVERYBODY (for posting pictures), including me (for not somehow placating and defusing D____), and then she was crying and asking me what to do.  (Asking me, because I'm a lesbian, working at D's church, and D still considers me a friend.)

    I leaned hard on what Drich suggested:  "your gay friend to share with the nosy Nellie some of the reasons she chooses to work planning church related events" -- I said that in a dozen different ways.  "Share your passion -- how you have always felt that you are called to do this, how it makes you feel, share the wonderful stories about how people have been inspired.  Share your fear.  Tell her what it's like to fear that you will be blacklisted and not allowed to run retreats anymore.  Tell her that you are afraid you could even lose your adopted children.  Tell her that M has been a long time friend and that when he suggested the ruse, it sounded like a perfect answer - an easy safeguard. Tell her the truth."

    D is angry because she hasn't been offered a job, but she is not heartless, and she's not homophobic.  She considers herself a songwriter, and was hoping to use this organization's influence to meet some church music publishers.  I pointed this out, and suggested that the retreat leader find time in her schedule to work with D on her compositions - - and let D meet the kids and wife.  (Kids. She surely wouldn't endanger the care of three cute kids.)

They're probably having a phone conversation now.  Fingers crossed.  Me - a few more little things on the to-do list and I might even go to bed early.  Whew.

Special thanks to . . . yes, Drich . . . for providing the good suggestion.  -- And to mh and CL particularly, for good gentle advice.