Victim Blaming?

[The Grand Nudger]

Is she wearing a burka?    (I jest).

I rape exactly as much as I want to.  Maybe I'm some kind of a deviant, but the grand total of that desire over decades amounts to precisely nothing.  Muzzle yourself Ark, if you feel so strongly about your own underlying nature. The rest of us aren't having any meltdowns fighting urges to whip out our business and wave it menacingly at a counter girl with a skirt that's two inches shorter than regulations. It's just not a thing, in our lives.

[Excited Penguin]

Who says? And what is the relevance? Are you saying if I get completely fucked up at the bar then people will blame me if my car is stolen? Because I kind of doubt it.

Consistency of metaphor is important: If you bring your blinged out car to an unofficial car show and leave it unattended with the keys in.....some one is going to ride it like they stole it.

Say I roll a huge snowball to the top of a mountain and leave it there. Later on the wind blows it down the slope, creating a avalanche that buries a house. Am I too blame?

Bold mine

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You mean of analogy?

[Joods]

Meh I can see both sides. I'll just say...if I want to drink until I get black out drunk that's my damn choice as an adult. I am within my legal rights to drown myself in every last bottle and it doesn't mean anyone can rape me, kill me, or steal my car.

The reason people don't like this response is because it's only used for rape. If I drink myself into oblivion and someone comes in my house, takes my keys, and steals my car not one single person will be like "well...I mean, I'm not saying it's you're fault...but you could have protected yourself if you weren't so drunk".

I see your point. And while I agree with it, for myself, personally, I just don't like the feeling that the next day brings with it. I have been there done that, got the tee shirt. Now I only drink on Fridays, and it's one or two Angry Orchards at the most because I'm on a pool league and I need to stay focused. Otherwise, I just don't like the feeling of not being in control of myself.

[Arkilogue]

Listen, why don't you actually look up some statistics before you talk out of your ass? If I never drink a single drop of alcohol again for the rest of my life my reduced risk of being raped will be laughably insignificant.

Great suggestion! http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/a.../43-51.htm

Alcohol and Sexual Assault

Antonia Abbey, Ph.D., Tina Zawacki, M.A., Philip O. Buck, M.A., A. Monique Clinton, M.A., and Pam McAuslan, Ph.D.
ANTONIA ABBEY, PH.D., is an associate professor in the Department of Community Medicine, Wayne State University, Detroit, Michigan.

TINA ZAWACKI, M.A., PHILIP O. BUCK, M.A., and A. MONIQUE CLINTON, M.A., are research assistants in the Department of Community Medicine and doctoral students in the Department of Psychology, Wayne State University, Detroit, Michigan.

PAM MCAUSLAN, PH.D., is an assistant professor in the Department of Behavioral Sciences, University of Michigan-Dearborn, Dearborn, Michigan.

This work was supported by a grant to Dr. Abbey from the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism.
Conservative estimates of sexual assault prevalence suggest that 25 percent of American women have experienced sexual assault, including rape. Approximately one-half of those cases involve alcohol consumption by the perpetrator, victim, or both. Alcohol contributes to sexual assault through multiple pathways, often exacerbating existing risk factors. Beliefs about alcohol’s effects on sexual and aggressive behavior, stereotypes about drinking women, and alcohol’s effects on cognitive and motor skills contribute to alcohol-involved sexual assault. Despite advances in researchers’ understanding of the relationships between alcohol consumption and sexual assault, many questions still need to be addressed in future studies.

[The Grand Nudger]

You know, I've never had to think about it myself.  I don't worry that I'll wake up in the rape ward if I get tipsy.  Jail cell, maybe.  A ditch, with blood in my hair...sure.  A redneck militant bunker surrounded by trweaking hillbillies, fine, you got me.....but not raped.  No one has ever said to me "if you drink to much you put yourself at risk of rape."  "If you dress such and such a way you may be taken advantage of."   Not the slightest implication of a shared burden.

Yet another thing that's not a thing in my life.

[Losty]

Half involve cases where one or both have consumed some alcohol. That's not really convincing. Maybe if you don't drink so much I won't worry about you becoming a rapist? Sounds stupid right.

[Arkilogue]

Men are just wild animals and they can't help themselves. That's pretty fucking sexist by the way. Not to mention that it's bullshit. Men are not wild animals, men are not rapists, men are perfectly capable of controlling their sexual urges. Ask the men on this forum if they ever even have a desire to rape someone. Odds are, they don't.

Humans are animals, period. Some retain domestication others go feral...in both sexes.

And some cultures are better at not raping than others: https://thinkprogress.org/what-we-can-le....1wt1gskhb

United Nations researchers just published a sweeping study on the roots of sexual violence, spanning six countries and two years. The survey, which they say represents the world’s largest scientific project into the subject so far, aimed to investigate the “under-researched” area of male-perpetrated rape. On average, about one in four men included in the study said they had raped someone at some point in their lives. One in ten had raped someone who wasn’t their romantic partner.

The UN study surveyed over 10,000 men from Bangladesh, China, Cambodia, Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, and Sri Lanka. The researchers caution that some regional attitudes about sexuality in Southeastern Asia may contribute to the results that they gathered across those six countries. Still, though, there are some big takeaways from their findings. Here’s what the new research can tell us about the landscape of sexual violence as a whole:

....

Men rape because they have been taught that they have a right to claim women’s bodies. One of the fundamental concepts at the heart of “rape culture” is the idea that rape is inevitable, men can’t help themselves, and women must therefore work to protect themselves against it. Within the context of rape culture, the idea that men are entitled to sexual experiences is deeply entrenched. The UN researchers found that this attitude is pervasive among the rapists they surveyed. Among the men who acknowledged they had sexually assaulted someone else, more than 70 percent of them said they did it because of “sexual entitlement.” Forty percent said they were angry or wanted to punish the woman. About half of the men said they did not feel guilty.

[Excited Penguin]

I understand both sides of the argument.

Females shouldn't have to worry about doing something, like drinking, or dressing in a certain way, or partying with strangers, lest they get raped. They shouldn't and it's unfair. And it can be hard for some males to relate to this, case in point with Ark there.

But it is a reality. Rape happens a lot. We have to deal with it to the best of our abilities.

[LadyForCamus]

Consistency of metaphor is important: If you bring your blinged out car to an unofficial car show and leave it unattended with the keys in.....some one is going to ride it like they stole it.

Say I roll a huge snowball to the top of a mountain and leave it there. Later on the wind blows it down the slope, creating a avalanche that buries a house. Am I too blame?

Bold mine

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You mean of analogy?

And both are terrible.

[vorlon13]

Waking up after a bender and realizing one has been raped is awful, but how does that compare with waking up in jail and being informed you killed a family of 4 in a DUI wreck ?

We probably should make a continuum of consequences ranked by severity; including

waking up glued to the floor from your own dried vomit

waking up and finding out you're estranged from you family because of the scene you made

waking up and finding out you stole a city bus, and destroyed it without killing anyone

waking up in the ER and finding out you've destroyed your transplanted liver from drinking

waking up and finding out you shot up your car because it wouldn't start because in your drunken stupor you were sitting in the passenger seat

waking up in the ER and being given transfusions to replace the blood you vomited up

waking up in rehab with near fatal DTs, for the Nth time

not waking up

(I could go on for a while)