Supernatural Evidence?

[ApeNotKillApe]

Then again I have heard of squirrels that wear make-up...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e_88G4TY_w

[Edwardo Piet]

Epic.

[ApeNotKillApe]

[Ravenshire]

Now you're just being stupid.

Actually, he's been doing it a long time.

[I_am_not_mafia]

That's not how science works. Unless it is a refutation, which what you posted wasn't, then it adds to the body of evidence and the theory becomes more nuanced over time.

You are ignoring what I said earlier about your binary religious thinking. You can not draw a strict line between male and female brains, the two classes are distinct but share many features. For example men are generally strong and taller than women, but some men are shorter than some women, and some men are weaker than some women. Some men are shorter than some women but also stronger. But in each case they still have enough characteristics to be deemed men. This is why you cannot say that any brain, whether cisgendered or transgendered is 100% male or female.

No love, that is exactly how science works. You see in your desperation to find an article that agrees with your point, you failed to realize your article quotes the exact same guy I did, Antonio Guillamon; except your article is much older than mine, therefore if there is any discrepancy then the older information is obsolete.

He didn't say that the previous findings were wrong though. Regardless of the date, why are you still ignoring the bit I have put into bold which explains it all?

And for your information, I am a professional scientist. I know how science works.

Easy. For someone who is gender fluid, the non-plastic parts of the brain that encode gender identity are even balanced between male and female. Yet gender is also cultural, in the same way that everyone is a balance of nature and nurture. So the plastic parts of the brain change current gender preference over time due to cultural experience.

Mind providing a reference?

That sentence is meaningless.

[I_am_not_mafia]

So I claim this.

Science shows that transsexual brains are more similar to the gender that they claim to be and that they are not deluded in the same way.

My bold. Huggy, the article you linked to actually describes how this is the case. Yet you ignore this and concentrate on the differences instead of the similarities. You even underline the bit where he says that M2F transsexuals do not have a male brain.

(Btw you are also completely ignoring female to males).

You are making a strawman argument and quote mining.

wrong...

https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...der-brain/

“Trans people have brains that are different from males and females, a unique kind of brain,” Guillamon says. “It is simplistic to say that a female-to-male transgender person is a female trapped in a male body. It's not because they have a male brain but a transsexual brain.” Of course, behavior and experience shape brain anatomy, so it is impossible to say if these subtle differences are inborn.

If you paid attention to the video, you'd see that the woman's brain was indeed different.

[AceBoogie]

to OP

No. Supernatural isn't a thing. It exists only as an idea. There is nothing beyond nature because nature includes all. There is nothing beyond reality. There are no ghosts, no unicorns, no gods, no elves, and no trolls or fairies.

The world is a beautiful place as is, despite some of the horrible things that we have done to our habitat.

The idea that ANYTHING exists at all is insanely beautiful. Why? Who knows? Who cares.

I will not extend an olive branch to you. Fairy tales are for children.

[ApeNotKillApe]

Just so we're clear. Is it your position that gender is, or can be determined by ones emotional state?

If we're talking about personal gender identity and not biological sex, then sure why not.

Ed Gein made a woman suit out of human skin which he would wear as to be his own mother. Stealing corpses and literally tanning their hides in order to dress up as a corpse is an emotional outburst if I ever saw one

Also, what are you talking about?

[Huggy Bear]

That's not how science works. Unless it is a refutation, which what you posted wasn't, then it adds to the body of evidence and the theory becomes more nuanced over time.

You are ignoring what I said earlier about your binary religious thinking. You can not draw a strict line between male and female brains, the two classes are distinct but share many features. For example men are generally strong and taller than women, but some men are shorter than some women, and some men are weaker than some women. Some men are shorter than some women but also stronger. But in each case they still have enough characteristics to be deemed men. This is why you cannot say that any brain, whether cisgendered or transgendered is 100% male or female.

No love, that is exactly how science works. You see in your desperation to find an article that agrees with your point, you failed to realize your article quotes the exact same guy I did, Antonio Guillamon; except your article is much older than mine, therefore if there is any discrepancy then the older information is obsolete.

He didn't say that the previous findings were wrong though. Regardless of the date, why are you still ignoring the bit I have put into bold which explains it all?

He wasn't asked about previous findings, so why would he just randomly bring it up? Also the part you emboldened is just YOU grasping at straws, You explicitly stated that:

Science shows that transsexual brains are more similar to the gender that they claim to be and that they are not deluded in the same way.

*emphasis mine*

This is false according to Antonio Guillamon a source both YOU and I referenced.


https://www.scientificamerican.com/artic...der-brain/

“Trans people have brains that are different from males and females, a unique kind of brain,”

It clearly states that trans people have DIFFERENT brains, not similar...

And for your information, I am a professional scientist. I know how science works.

Apparently not if you don't realize that scientific data is based upon the best available information and is subject to becoming obsolete in light of new data.

Mind providing a reference?

That sentence is meaningless.

Hold up! Why is asking you to provide a citation with your claim meaningless?

It's ok, just take the L, no shame in that.

There is a reason that members like The Gentleman Bastard, prefer to heckle from the sideline, rather than get involved in the debate, they want no part of being in Huggy's highlight reel...

[I_am_not_mafia]

OK Huggy let me explain the context of the brain scans.

At the moment, unless you are going to dissect brains, the only thing you can talk about in terms of brain scans is how large a specific area is compared to some other reference. So for example how much white or grey matter. That's all. We do not have the resolution to say anything better than that. Overtime dissection studies will show us other differences, and the very first differences were found this way. But this is slow work even if there were plenty of donated brains to choose from money to perform the research. Add to that our lack of understand of how the brain actually works, we're limited in what we can do at the moment except to point and say that bit is bigger than that bit.

Brains are plastic which means that they adapt. Neurons re-connect with each other, some areas become more developed over time through use, much like muscles if you exercise them. So for example the the hippocampus the area responsible for spatial learning gets larger over time in taxi drivers.

There are innate differences between typically male and female brains, but that doesn't mean to say that all male brains share exactly all the same typically male characteristics or all female brains share all typically female characteristics. There is a mix. Society also tends to enforce these differences and because people tend to continue to do what they are good at, they get better at it. This is the nurture part.

There are ways that the brain is not plastic. This is the nature part. Neuroscience can't yet tell us exactly which is why. So for example young boys tend to prefer to play one way, girls another.

No one is saying that transsexuals have wholly the same brain as the gender they claim, it would be unreasonable to do so because they haven't always lived the life in the gender they identify as. In the same way that if you take a young cisgendered girl and raise her as a boy her brain will be different from other girls her same age, but she will still be a girl, still identify as a girl and still think like a girl. This is because she will have developed other skills to a greater or lesser extent.

But despite transgendered people being raised in the gender that they do not identify as, they still have brain scans more typical of the gender that they identify as than their biological sex. This aspect of gender is inherent to their nature and this is why being transgendered is so painful. Their nature is completely at odds with their nurture and this will be reflected in brain scans. This is why it is referred to as gender dysphoria. The only cure is to allow them to live a life in keeping with their nature so they can be who they are.

Understand now?